E148 - Bri McLaughlin - Poetry
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Beth: [00:00:00] Recording
Hello, my friend. Welcome back to another episode of Create Today with Beth Buffington. I have a guest today that I am very anxious for you to meet. Her name is Bri McLaughlin, and she is a bilingual English/Spanish LCSW, which stands for licensed clinical social worker, and she works at the Connections Health and Collaborative Counseling in Evanston, Illinois.
And she is a poetry therapist in training. She creatively uses evocative literature and bibliotherapy to guide people in journaling and in deepening their relationship with themselves. Bri works with tweens and teens and adults, including college and graduate students and young adults who are navigating life's transitions.
Her areas of focus include [00:01:00] anxiety, depression, grief, recovery from trauma, academic and work issues, and social and interpersonal challenges. And she has significant experience supporting neurodivergent and neurotypical individuals, creatives, and those who are navigating the complexities of cancer. Oh my gosh, Bri, this is such an amazing way to reach out to people who really need to just understand themselves better and find a way to navigate life.
Welcome to Create Today. I am so excited to have you here and talk to you about your special creative gift. Welcome.
Bri: Thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited, too. so I'm Bri. I love reading and writing and all things poetry.
when I was a little kid, just really got into the reading and writing, and then [00:02:00] in high school, fell in love with poetry. And so when I was in graduate school for social work at UIC, my mom found this article in the Chicago Tribune, and she said, "Look, people do poetry therapy." And it was something I had never heard of before, but once I looked into it, it was love at first sight.
I was like, "Oh, this is how I can marry my hobby with my work," and it all feels so integrated now.
Beth: Being able to find something that you loved to do when you were little- Mm-hmm ... and find out, oh, now I get to do it every day at my job, that's like everybody's dream.
That is everybody's dream. So-
Bri: Absolutely ...
Beth: walk me through how you use your creativity in poetry and apply it to a client
Bri: Yeah, absolutely. it can look so different [00:03:00] for any different client, right? I used to do, a poetry therapy group a few years ago virtually, and I would bring a poem or song lyric to the session and have everybody read through it.
So usually I like to have at least two people read through it so we can hear it in two different voices, and there's something special about embodying that poem, too. When, when you say it out loud, you feel it more. And then we do, you know, just do a discussion, and it's not a critique of the poem or what we think the writer was necessarily intending, but more, you know, what resonated with you type of thing.
And it can spark some helpful conversation. There was one time in that group when we listened to a song called This Is Me from The Greatest Showman. I don't know, have you seen that- Yes ... musical, Beth?
Beth: I have. It's, it's
Bri: beautiful Oh, that's great
Beth: Yeah. [00:04:00]
Bri: Yeah. So beautiful. Um, that song in particular is kind of about embracing your uniqueness disability pride, and it was really powerful.
a- after listening to that song a few of the group members really opened up, and one person said, "You know, actually I am on the autism spectrum." And it turned out so was somebody else, and there was another person who was feeling like, "Wow, I might be experiencing this, but I'm really nervous about getting myself checked out."
And they were really able to support each other in that moment, and it was just, you know, such a breakthrough that we wouldn't have had if we hadn't,listened to that song.
Beth: I think poetry is such an overlooked tool. It- Mm-hmm ... a lot of times you'll mention poetry to someone and most people will go, "Oh, you know, I, nah, I don't do a lot of poetry."
[00:05:00] But when you get together with a group, with someone who knows which poetry, you could bring to the table to read aloud, that's where the magic happens.
And something you had written in your questionnaire to me we read the poem aloud and often people will have reactions like, "That's how I felt, but I couldn't put it into words." Yeah. And I, I got a little chill when I read that because- Oh, wow
there's so many books and poems that I read- Oh, wow ... and the way the author crafts the words and brings in metaphors and similes and descriptions, you think to yourself, "I understand that. Yeah. "That, that is me, and I thought I was alone."
Bri: Exactly.
yeah. Oh, I'm so glad you brought that up.
That's such a good point. And I always like to emphasize, too, this is accessible for everyone. and usually [00:06:00] part of it can involve journaling prompts, but I always emphasize you don't need any experience writing. Like this is not school, this is not for a grade, this is not work,
You're not gonna send this in for publication unless, you know, maybe you're already a writer and you really want to do that, right? But for therapeutic purposes, it's just about how you feel and what comes up for you, and I think it can be really powerful for people to push back against their perfectionism when they allow themselves to just free write for five minutes in a journal.
And I encourage people, like don't censor yourself. Even if it doesn't seem to make much sense, you don't have to worry about spelling, capitalization, punctuation, grammar. All of that kind of goes to the wayside when it's focused on you and your, therapeutic process. So I think that's something anyone listening to this podcast [00:07:00] can do on your own at home.
and if you feel like, "I need a prompt, I don't know what to write about," just go online and Google journaling prompts for stress or whatever you're experiencing and that might get you started.
Beth: that is such a, a good piece of advice. And to know that you don't need to worry about y- your grammar, your spelling
did you punctuate things correctly. And I also think the word you said is you don't have to censor yourself.
So how do you tell people who are maybe journaling at home-
How to not censor themselves? 'Cause I think everyone is, is a little fearful. Like, what if someone finds my notebook and they read- Right ... what I've written? So what is your advice for that?
Bri: Good question, Beth. Yeah. Something that probably is a, a real concern for some people, right? And I would say, one thing is we all have this inner critic that wehave built up over [00:08:00] the years.
First,trying to see what's underneath the surface of that inner critic if you're able to just give yourself a prompt, write it down and then if you don't wanna see it again, I encourage people, like, you can shred it.
You can throw it out. One really powerful exercise is this unsent letter where if, you're feeling really emotional about an interaction you had with someone, maybe it's a close relative, maybe it's even, like, an ex-partner or spouse, I really encourage people, write whatever you wanna write knowing that you're not gonna hurt this person 'cause you're not gonna give them this letter,
And so it's okay to really say how you feel and express your true self, and then afterward you can burn it. and I would suggest for people if you want to hold onto this and it's in your journal maybe there's a place at home where, you can hide [00:09:00] it, in between your clothes in your dresser Where people probably aren't gonna go looking for that.
Beth: when you brought up the inner critic, that is the voice inside your head that is telling you, "That's not good enough for anyone to see. You never finish anything.
People will judge you if you do these things. Mm-hmm. And I did a podcast episode, uh, I think it was last year, that was called Who is Your Inner Critic? Wow. your inner critic is a combination of, people who in the past might have been most judgmental about you or most disciplinary.
So your inner critic was built to keep you safe from those kinds of people.
And so who is your inner critic? And, then the exercise was, do you have to listen to them anymore? Because when you become aware that you have that voice in your head that you don't [00:10:00] actually have to listen to, it is really freeing. And the number- ... of people who aren't aware that their inner critic isn't their boss is, very large.
And I also wanted to, mention when you were talking about, burning,I led this creative retreat-
where we did burn boxes, we made lists of baggage that we wanted to let go of. Wow. And then we had a bonfire that evening, and we burned their burn boxes.
Bri: Oh ...
Beth: It was really powerful to see the boxes get burnedto think about who they were and what they were leaving behind and what they were heading towards.
Bri: Oh my goodness, that sounds so special. I'm so glad you brought that up because I feel like a lot of my clients could benefit from listening to that Inner Critic podcast. So that's something I will definitely pass along. And- Yeah ... this ritual you're describing of, like, creating the boxes and then burning them in a group is so powerful.
And ritual is actually one of [00:11:00] the parts of poetry therapy. So poetry therapy, it's, it's a bigger umbrella term, and it can include things like ritual and metaphor and group things like that. So you might not have even realized, like, that could fall under the umbrella of poetry therapy.
Beth: Yes.
I love how,really playful-
Bri: Yeah ...
Beth: poetry truly is,
So finding someone that, uh, knows how to use it as a tool, and how to make it blossom like a flower so that you understand the goodness that it has to give that's just wonderful. Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
Um, talk to me a little bit about creativity in your profession.
how talented does someone need to be with their knowledge of poetry or how well they write poetry in order to get benefits from their journaling?
how much experience does someone need in order to find, poetry therapy successful for them?
Bri: [00:12:00] Yeah. Great question. you don't need any experience in writing, 'cause sometimes people hear the word poetry and they think, it's not accessible.
I've never done that before. Never have written a poem, never have been, like, super into reading poetry. But poetry, it allows us to feel. to get a benefit you don't need any experience, Because it's not about the product, it's about the process, What we do while we're writing and how you incorporate that afterward in journaling is a catharsis, so this release of this emotion, right?
It's literally getting these thoughts, worries, concerns out of your head onto a piece of paper. I also, wanted to share, there was a study done, by Dr. James Pennebaker, a psychologist, and he, had [00:13:00] college students journal for 20 minutes a day, and one group just journaled about, random things, but another group journaled about difficult things that had happened in their past.
And, it was really interesting the results. He found students who journaled about something that had been difficult for them He was able test their immune systems and found that they had built up a higher immunity in their body.
So I'm so glad you e- you phrased it like that, right? Can people benefit? And absolutely anyone can benefit.
Beth: I love the way you said focus on the process, not the product. Right. So you don't have to end up with a beautiful poem. It's the actual doing that is the healing.
Bri: Absolutely. And speaking of doing, I don't know if you would be open to showing or demonstrating. We could read a poem together and-
Beth: Oh, [00:14:00] yes. Let's- Do a
Bri: little journaling prompt I
Beth: love it. I love it. Let's do it. Let's do it. And for those of you who are watching on YouTube- Great ... you're gonna be able to see, Brie's screen and see the poem.
Bri: And if you want to read it out loud to yourself as well, I think this would be really fun.Great.
So this poem is called The Peace of Wild Things by Wendell Berry. And I always like to hear it in two voices. So Beth, I would be honored if you would read it out loud first.
Beth: Sure, sure. Okay. So now everyone, I haven't seen this yet, so I'm reading it just straight out of the box, but here we go.
When despair for the world grows in me and I wake in the night at the least sound in fear of what my life and my children's lives may be, I go and lie down where the wood drake rests in his beauty on the water and the great heron feeds. I come into the wings of wild things [00:15:00] who do not tax their lives with forethought of grief.
I come into the presence of still water, and I feel above me the day-blind stars waiting with their light. For a time I rest in the grace of the world and am free.
Bri: Thank you so much. Oh, absolutely wonderful to hear that. All right. I'll read it out loud as well. When despair for the world grows in me and I wake in the night at the least sound in fear of what my life and my children's lives may be, I go and lie down where the wood drake rests in his beauty on the water and the great heron feeds.
I come into the peace of wild things who do not tax their lives with forethought of grief. I come into the presence of still water, and I feel above me the day-blind stars waiting [00:16:00] with their light. For a time I rest in the grace of the world and am free. And I just feel this poem is so universal, and I think we all have struggled with stress, anxiety at some point, and so I feel this can be, you know, so helpful and grounding.
Yeah. Oh. So Beth, I'm curious, what came up for you? Any emotions or thoughts,as you were reading and listening to this?
Beth: So first, just straight out of the gate reading the words they're just blossoming in front of you.
Bri: Uh-huh ...
Beth: then I was able to look for metaphors and so much of what we've already talked about really popped out for me.
So for example when you lay at night at the least sound in fear of what my life and my children's lives may be. I mean, that is- so many of us wake up in the middle of the night- Mm-hmm ... with [00:17:00] worries for tomorrow, or worries for what will happen, or worries for what we're afraid is happening, not only with our lives, but with our families.
And so that's what keeps us up at night, is those, those fears and that inner critic that's telling us, "All these things are melting in your life. How can you sleep?" And then to be able to go somewhere where the world is quiet, like where the wood drake rests. And then understand that these wild things, they don't tax their lives with forethought of grief, and so they're calm in what they're doing.
They're not worried about tomorrow. They're just resting- Mm ... in the presence of the still water. So much of that says, "In the middle of the night, there's nothing you can do about what you're worrying about. So you should just rest and relax and rejuvenate so that you have the energy to face tomorrow."
Bri: Absolutely. Yeah. And maybe they [00:18:00] wanna read a poem like this. I think even, like, when I was listening to you read it, I could picture this water and the heron. And even picturing that I had this visceral reaction and felt a little bit more relaxed. So I, that, that's really helpful.
And I think that, reminds us all too to get out into nature and experience that when we can.
Beth: Yeah ...
Bri: and so sometimes what we will do is some fill in the blanks, and it makes it really easy. It makes it accessible. this doesn't have to be a poem necessarily. So if that inner critic, roars or makes a loud noise in your head, I would encourage you to acknowledge it and you say "Hey, I'm...
This is coming up for me." And then we can talk together about, okay, how, like you said, how not to listen to that while [00:19:00] we're doing this journaling exercise. And I think to make it a little easier I can have you fill in the blanks here, and I can, type it as you speak.
Does that sound like that would work for you?
Beth: Sure. Let's do it. What do I need to do? Tell me.
Bri: All right.so the first fill in the blank I thought we could do is when despair for the world grows in me, I dot, And you can, fill in whatever comes up for you. I can type it out.
Beth: Yeah. Usually despair for me is concerned- Mm-hmm ... with my parents or my children. Mm-hmm. I think i- if I'm following the fill-in-the-blank right. So-
Bri: Yeah ...
Beth: the saying is you're only- For sure ... as happy as your most unhappy child. Mm-hmm. And so in the middle of the night, those are the things that creep into your head,
And, "What haven't I done that I [00:20:00] could've helped them on?" "Am I being too much for them right now?" I mean, you go back and forth between where that pendulum lies.
Bri: Absolutely. And what helps you? Like, when you feel that despair, what helps you cope with it?
Beth: So for me, and I've done a lot of research on calming myself, and that's part of a framework- Mm-hmm ... That I like to teach. I know in the middle of the night compartmentalizing for me is important. Mm. Can I do anything about it right now? And the answer is usually if I'm laying in bed, pretty much nothing.
if there is something that I could get up and do it, if that's gonna help you. if you're laying in bed and you're worrying, "Did I shut the garage door before I went to bed?" Well, the easiest way to find out is to go check, and then go back to bed. Mm-hmm. But if you're worrying about whether or not, my mom is, is healthy unless I wake her up and ask her how is she, I'm just gonna need to wait till morning.
[00:21:00] Something else I do is- Right.
because my brain is busy at night, I do listen to books I'm reading or something like that, that will take my mind away- Oh, mm-hmm ... from what is waking me up with worry.
Bri: Absolutely. Yeah. I love how you said, you feel like when that inner critic comes out, you're like, "Okay, that's the inner critic.
Let me try to shift my mind a little bit to something else." that's great advice. Yeah, compartmentalizing, listen to books on tape, a quiet meditation podcast.
Yeah,
Um, yeah, so I think, uh, we can put that under the next prompt. I might be stressed, but I can-
Beth: Yeah ...
Bri: listen to books on tape.
Okay, great. Yeah, so I had up we've got, "When despair for the world grows in me I..." And so it was great how you des- okay, these are some of the worries that you have, right? Yeah. My parents, my children, what if I left the garage door [00:22:00] open? and then the next part I might be stressed, but I can listen to books on tape, listen to a meditation podcast.
yeah. Anything else that helps you when you're feeling stressed?
Beth: Yes. Yeah, you just don't wanna feed your stress.
Bri: Mm-hmm. Oh, great. Yeah. don't feed the stress. Okay, good. Yeah. Well, I'm curious, how was that for you? I know it was very short, very brief, but how did it feel for you to, read through that poem, talk it through a little bit, and then fill in some of the blanks here?
Beth: I think this is really helpful to understand how the poem applies to your life,Uh-huh. And if metaphors are something that you don't pick up on, right away-
Bri: Uh-huh ...
Beth: it is a way to say, let's look at how this poem might relate to you. So fill in this blank, and it [00:23:00] becomes almost your own poem then.
And when you allowed me just to ramble, like I'm just gonna talk about what that means to me, and then you wrote it down- Yeah. So good ... and you see that written right there on the screen, then it, does help you understand a little bit more about, well, I just put a mirror up to my life, and now I'm able to see myself a little better.
Bri: Absolutely.
But that, that can be an example of what what might be part of a poetry therapy session. sometimes people, sometimes we just do part of it where we just read the poem and talk about it, Or we just do a little journaling exercise, or they might do some silent journaling.
so many different ways to do that And like you were saying, people can do it on their own at home, right? if you don't have a poetry book just Google, "Hey, poems that might help with stress or anxiety," and, you know, see if anything resonates with you that comes [00:24:00] up.
Beth: do you have some poetry books that you would recommend for general life stress or concerns about health? Is that something you could share?
Bri: Oh, absolutely. for example, for body image, I recommend some books by Rupi Kaur. Um, she has different books I think. Milk and Honey, The Sun and Her Flowers,
But those are really helpful for body image. And then some other books by Courtney Peppernell that are really helpful for grief. So I can send that on to you as well
Beth: That would be great. So for people who are wondering, uh, how do I find the list that Bri is going to send, go to the show notes and I will have the, list that Bri sent, andyou can go and find those books.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, yeah. So, do you have some advice that you could give creatives who are thinking, [00:25:00] "I, love what you're doing, Bri.
How can I work poetry into evenings for myself as a ritual. do you have some advice for people who are interested in adding more poetry to their world?
Bri: Oh, absolutely. I know there are some really nice websites.
There's one called Poem a Day, where you sign up for an email list, and it emails you one poem each day. and so you take that and, if you have a morning routine, you might read that poem with your breakfast, or if you have an evening routine, you might read it as you're winding down.
And I think there's another great poet, Her name's Rosemary Wahtola Trommer, and she writes a lot about different life experiences, but she also writes about grief and losing loved ones. And she has an email list where she sends out a [00:26:00] poem a day as well.
And looking for poetry books and reading those. even if you don't have time to do it every single day, that's okay, too. I always encourage people, hey, if your goal is I wanna read one poem a day and you miss a few days or you go on vacation or you get sick, totally okay, right?
Don't be hard on yourself. And maybe it's even you read one haiku a day, right? Make it small. Make it achievable for yourself. But poetry, it helps us feel, so it doesn't have to be this mysterious difficult academic thing. It's really can be for, for anyone who, who wants to experience it
Beth: So I just finished a book yesterday, um, that was...
It's, uh, actually a novel called How to Read a Book,
And something that stuck with me- Uh-huh ... that you've talked about is just when you're reading, read out loud and then- Yeah ... [00:27:00] slow down. don't read it fast. I think in our world everything is Yeah ... how quickly can we get it done?
Right. And that w- especially with poetry, reading it slowly allows your brain find the goodness in each one of the words that were chosen for that poem.
Bri: Oh, great. Yes. Right. Thank you so much for highlighting that, especially in this culture of, like, fast, fun and easy, and, ... YouTube Shorts and all of that.
It's so good to read it slowly. And, one of my poetry therapy mentors, her name is Beth Jacobson. I was able to, shadow her while she was doing some poetry groups for students. I think it was maybe, like, first or second grade through fifth grade in this summer camp that she was doing, and she has each of them, pick a poem that really resonates with them, and then they memorize it.
So they recite it over and over, and she tells them, "If you memorize this, it's yours." And that was really powerful to see as [00:28:00] well.
Beth: I think we do that a lot with song lyrics that we love.
We will get those in our head- That's true ... and we'll r- memorize those. But doing that- Right ... with a poem that can make it almost a shield for yourself or, Yeah ... that comforting blanket that you can take with you, so you can pull it out in times of need, and it's there for you.
Bri: Oh, I love that. Yeah, the blanket, the shield. What a good metaphor. What a helpful way for people to think about it like that.
Beth: Yeah. So I uh, that's what I love about creativity is that it's so- Yeah ... ethereal. It's always- Mm-hmm ... out there. A- and so many of us don't believe that it is something that everyone can have and you, have every right to sit down and be creative and get all the goodness that creativity offers in any form.
Yeah. Oh, I love that,Yeah.
Bri: Beautiful.
Beth: Tell me what are you excited about right now? Tell us some things that you're doing and how [00:29:00] people can find you.
Bri: Oh, great. Yes. I'm really excited right now for the practice that I work at, Connections Health. We are planning an open house on October 21st, so anyone in Evanston, Illinois or nearby is welcome to come in. and we might be doing some expressive art demonstrations. Nothing is set in stone yet but it's possible that, I might do some, journaling exercise or poetry.
and I have two coworkers who are art therapists, so they might do some, visual art demonstrations. So I'm hoping that we can incorporate that, if it works out. And then I am also planning a poetry therapy workshop for some time in November, and so very much looking forward to that, as well continuing the poetry [00:30:00] therapy work with individual clients.
Beth: I love that. So if somebody is interested and they're in the Chicago area, and they're interested- Uh-huh ... in finding you do they just go to your website? Do they need get some- Yeah ... sort of admission? Is it free to come? Or the session that you're doing in November, do they need to sign up for that?
How does that work?
Bri: Oh, that's a good question. I'll post the information on the website and people can sign up through there. Thank you so much.
Beth: Sure, sure. And so, uh, what is the website URL? Is it easy to say out loud? And also everyone- Oh, yeah
it will be in the show notes as well
Bri: Yeah, it connections-health.com
Beth: Easy to do. Easy to do. Yeah. So all right. And I also know that, you have another passion that you are working on, and you're going to come back to another Create Today, interview to talk about this specific avenue of your love in poetry.
You wanna share a little bit about that? [00:31:00]
Bri: Oh, absolutely. I'm also part of a typewriter poetry group in Chicago. It's called Poems While You Wait, and it was founded by Kathleen Rooney, Eric Platner, and Dave Landsberger about 15 years ago. and I am so honored to have joined about two years ago. And so what we do is go to different events throughout the city and bring our typewriters, and people can come up to us and request a poem about any topic of their choice.
we give them about 15 minutes, and we do a spontaneous improv poem for them. And so that is so much fun, such a unique way to connect with people. we might be at weddings or street fairs or the library, the history museum places all throughout the city.
And it's such a fun, exercise and good way to connect [00:32:00] with strangers that you might, never see again. But they are collaborating with us and giving us these ideas, which is really fun.
Beth: Oh my gosh. I w- so Bree is actually a really good friend of my oldest daughter, Emily.
Yeah. And Emily mentioned that you were doing this when we were at a, a family gathering several weeks ago. And I was so intrigued by Poetry While You Wait, and just sitting there with a typewriter, impromptu, bam, here it comes. And I can imagine- Yeah ... that you probably surprise yourself on how you can just open up yourself to reach in and, and touch other people while you're...
while they're waiting for a poem. I mean, that, that's a- Right. ... huge talent It's almost like a, a caricature artist, you know, that sits down and can draw anybody's picture and, So I love that you're doing this,
Bri: Yeah.
Beth: And then the fact that when you do that, the [00:33:00] goodness that's radiating out to, um, the community is crazy.
That's
Bri: so good. Absolutely. Yeah. And one of my friends, Lisa she calls the people who give us the topics and inspiration, she calls them our muses, you know? it's so great to get inspiration that way or write something about something that I probably wouldn't write about normally.
Beth: Yeah. I just did some research on greeting cards.and the research shows- Uh-huh ... that an act of goodness like when you give somebody something, such as a poem, a card, that- Oh
it is really good for that person's soul, but then that person, without even realizing it, radiates the same kindness out So what you're doing is rippling out past the person that you've written the poem to.
Bri: Oh.
Beth: And it just- That's
Bri: beautiful ...
Beth: it is a really interesting piece of evidence.
They were comparing it to just a- like, [00:34:00] um, gossip, how gossip spreads. Oh. Well, kindness spreads in that same fashion, so better to spread kindness than gossip. what you're doing is not only good for the person receiving the poem, but then they get that feeling of goodness, and they pay it forward as well.
Bri: Oh, that's so great to know. like a ripple just kind of-
Beth: Yeah ... spreading out Like those butterfly kisses, you know, that just kind of spread out It's doing the same thing. Oh. such goodness. Yeah.
Bri: Oh, that's amazing.
Beth: Yeah. I love that you're doing this.
Bri: It's so cool. and And just as a mom, I love to see what my, my children's friends are doing with their lives.you and Emily's whole crowd from school, I love to get caught up on what you guys are working on, Oh, thank you ...
Beth: Aw, thank you so much. Yes. Yeah. Emily is amazing. I really treasure our friendship.
Bri: Aw.
Beth: Bri, is there anything else you wanna share before we [00:35:00] close down today?
Any last poetic thought you can share with our audience that will leave them with uh, just a slice of creativity they hadn't thought of before they joined us?
Bri: Oh, good question. I just think I would reiterate, poetry allows us to feel. It allows us to express, whether you're reading it or writing it or journaling.
And, it does not have to be intimidating or academic. It can just be whatever you need it to be. And, try out journaling for, five to 20 minutes a day and see what happens.
Beth: Oh, I love that. Thank you so much. Your ideas about what to do with poems, I think probably have opened up a lot of people's thoughts and ideas about their feelings i- about poetry,
There's so many ways to make it something you can carry with you to help- Mm-hmm ... with the trials in life. So my creative friend- Mm-hmm
I hope [00:36:00] that you have listened to Bri and have found some golden gems today about what you can do with your creativity, and how poems can become something more than just, uh, something you studied in high school. It can actually become- Mm-hmm ... a tool that you can use daily or weekly or monthly to help you learn how to stay creative.
Thanks so much for joining us today, Bri. you have been just- Thank you ... an amazing delight to talk to today.
Bri: Aw. Well, thank you. Same to you. It is such a great honor to be on the podcast, so thank you so much.
Beth: You're welcome. You're welcome.
and everyone, I'll see you next week, so you can learn a little bit more about what you can do with your creativity.
Thanks so much, Bri. We'll talk to you later.
Bri: Thanks. Bye.
