E144 - Deborah Shoemaker-guest
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Speaker: [00:00:00] Recording
Hello, my creative friend. Welcome back to another episode of Create Today with Beth Buffington. You know I always love having a good guest come in and talk to us about some special creativity that they have that's unique to themselves. And today I have a guest I cannot wait for you to meet. you need to know all about her creativity, and you might want to know how you can get the products that she's putting together with her creativity.
Super exciting. I cannot wait for you to meet Deborah Shoemaker. She is the founder of Feather Mountain Expressions. It's an independent publishing company, and she's the author behind several pen names, including children's author Clarissa Shiffen. After retiring, Deborah decided to use her newfound freedom [00:01:00] to explore whatever interested her, which has led to books and digital products, animation experiments, and more than a few creative rabbit holes.
Her newest project is Salz & Peppa, a children's mystery world starring two cat detectives who live above a Brooklyn pizzeria. I mean, what's not to love there, right? This was inspired by a lifelong belief that there is far too much life to experience to sit on the sidelines. Deborah is still sampling what the world has to offer her, and turning some of those adventures into stories.
Her favorite creative question is simple: I wonder if I could do that? Deborah, let's get started talking about how your creativity is opening up a new world for you, and a new world for a lot of other people. Welcome, welcome.
Speaker 2: Hi, Beth. Thank you for having me here.
Speaker: So, uh, name is Deborah Shoemaker. I'm [00:02:00] currently living out in Grand Lake, Colorado. I'm about 10 minutes from Rocky Mountain National Park, so it's beautiful, the scenery, the mountains, a lot of snow. I retired after 38 years in the government. Uh, I was a computer scientist and went to management, and uh, there were a lot of rules.
Speaker 2: So when I retired it took me a little while, okay? Uh, to be fair, you don't retire and then the next day suddenly go, "Oh, I should invent this and that," right? It took me a little while.Wait, and let me just dovetail on your four words, the R words, right?
The re- revive, realize, refine, and release.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker 2: Okay, so your program helped me find my my words, which was retire- ... relax. I relaxed first, right? Took a couple months to binge-watch stuff. You know, right, I relaxed. Uh, then rediscover, reimagine, and then finally rocket. Okay, so that took like two years, right, to get to that point.
So it's not sudden when you retire. You don't suddenly know [00:03:00] what you're gonna do. So that took a little while because you have to, you have to be curious. You have to go try all kind of things, But I think that's a good summary of where I'm coming from.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Absolutely. I love how you've listened and learned my going forwards process, and figured out how you revived, how you realized that your curiosity was, waiting to do some stuff, and then how you used refine to put those to work. And then I can see that your release is really happening right now with what we're going to be talking about today.
So when you retired, you suddenly had control of your own time. Mm-hmm. how did you decide where your curiosity was gonna land?
Do you have any stories to share with us w- about that?
Speaker 2: Sure, sure. I retired and I did what I would think is l- a lot of the typical things. I tried, uh, knitting. Knitting and crocheting doesn't work for me. I tried watercolor. That's also kind of fun, but I'm not that talented at watercoloring.
I tried [00:04:00] acrylic paints. Turns out you have to wait for paint to dry, right? So and I'm kind of impatient, My kids are like, "Mom, you need to pick hobbies that you don't have to wait," right? So I'm like, "Who knew paint had to dry?" So, stories though,
I've always told stories My father-in-law used to love my stories. My kids love my stories. My kids even today, even though they're in their 30s, but they still remember the stories. They're like, "Mom, remember when you told us this?"
And I go, "No. No, I didn't make that up." And they go, "Oh, absolutely you did, Mom." Right? So, so the fact that they remember made me start thinking, well, what if I started sharing stories? What if I started writing those down, In today's technology, you can do that, right? It's not the old I gotta write it all by pen on pen and paper, and then I got a, the typewriter, you know, 'cause I'm kind of old.
When there was a typewriter, and you got so excited when it had corrective tape. Uh- You know, everything's on computer now, so it's so much easier. So that's kind of how I started. I just gave myself permission to like, well, what if I can try that?
I mean, [00:05:00] worst that could happen is I messed it up or, I failed and I try something else. It's okay to fail. Actually, that's when you learn the most when you mess up.
I love how you you've allowed yourself to experiment.
Speaker: So your mantra, I wonder if I could do that I think that is awesome. And you decided to do stories, and then you said to yourself, "But okay, how could I make this easier on myself with a little technology?"
So what were some of those techy things that you learned how to do,
Speaker 2: Canva. Canva was, like, the first number one tool. I will go down, I don't know, 10 levels of rabbit holes on Canva hacks,
and then, like you said, the technology, especially the social media, That's kind of a new thing, 'cause I'm over 60, so it's relatively exciting.
the social media platforms. Each one is different, has a different slant, a different audience, different format. Oh, my gosh. And then, the technology like, DM is direct message,[00:06:00] How do you do that? How do you hook up this thing called ManyChats?
How do you hook up an email funnel? my daughter's a data scientist, and she gave me a whole briefing on what an email funnel is, I had no idea, So I just feel like I've learned a lot. Even if I don't get rich, The fact that I'm learning something new almost every day, to me, that's exciting. I think that keeps my brain alive. It, it keeps me engaged. I have,
stuff to talk with my adult kids that is interesting, and they're like, "Did you see Mom's post?" And they can make comments. I don't know, Beth. It just kind of worked out for me like that.
Speaker: Oh, okay. Wow. So much you just said there we have to look at. So let's unpack a few things. First of all backing it up, understanding that, you decided you wanted to write stories.
And then you had some good stories, and your thought probably was, uh, what can I do with these stories? How can I get them out to- Mm-hmm ... the public? How can I sell them? Yes? And then you thought to yourself, [00:07:00] okay, social media, that's a good way to market. What else can I do to start working on this? Email.
Yes, email's a great way to do that. What do email funnels look like? I mean, those are things you probably never thought you were going to learn when you said to yourself, "I'm gonna write a book about a little bear that travels or cats that are detectives." But if you're going to be an author that markets your own work, you gotta learn how to do all the things.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah, right? Absolutely. And- That's more work than writing the stories, actually.
Speaker: Yes, it is. Um, but I mean,when you stop and you think about what you have done, if you can just stand on that hill and look back at the progress you've made and the things that you've learned, how does that make you feel?
Speaker 2: It feels exciting, but I don't feel like I'm up on the hill. Beth, you need to check back with me in a couple years. I feel like I'm just starting, right? I'm just, to me, I just, I just started. [00:08:00] I'm just starting to climb the hill. There's so much more to learn and explore and, and fail, crash and burn, as we used to call it.
You know, you'd crash and burn miserably and, and then the trick was did you get up and walk away?Did you walk away from that crash, and what did you learn, and did you apply that again?
And so that's kind of where I'm at.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Okay, one thing I'm gonna tell you as a creative coach, that you don't have to wait until you're on top of the hill to take a look at your view. you can always turn around wherever you are on the mountain that you're climbing and see where you've come from,
That's what you need to celebratenot the fact that you've made it to the top of the hill, because you probably will never feel like you've made it to the top of the hill. But if you don't turn around and, and just celebrate the fact that you have made a distance, however small that might be, and allow yourself to go, "Whoo, look what I've done so far," that's what you need to celebrate.
Now let's talk about, rabbit holes, [00:09:00] because I think you've made a really good, um, illustration already of showing how rabbit holes can be learning curves
How do you use them to your advantage, and when do you know you need to pull yourself up out of a rabbit hole because it's not taking you anywhere? Do you have any advice to share?
Speaker 2: Yes, I, I'll just share how I do the rabbit holes.
So I mentioned I will travel down a Canva rabbit hole. Like, let's try that one first, right? Yes. Oh, this hack and this hack, and you'll do five different rabbit hole leaps, that'll lead you to this one. And then you get to that one, and that'll be different for everyone of course, but you get to that one, that one spot that's an idea, and then
I will pause there because then I will immediately try that, right? So say I go down a rabbit hole of Canva, like, "You can do this to change your background." Oh, that's cool. I wonder if I can do that. And then that's where I stop the rabbit hole, and I've switched over to Canva, and I'm literally trying what I just [00:10:00] watched.
Because I don't know if this happens to people. This happens to me a lot. You Pinterest You, "Oh, I'll save it. I'll save it." Later, you have, like, a thousand pins you've saved. Do you ever go back and look at them? No. So when I get to that one now I've learned, "Oh, I'll save it," but do it right now.
Do that tip right now. Go, that's another window. Just open up Canva over here. That's the example. Or even if it's a recipe, I've done this too. That's a cool recipe. Let's go right now. Do I have those ingredients? Same when I was taking tutorials on the software. Oh, well, let's install that right now and try it,
That's how I, I stop. 'Cause otherwise, you're right, we could just rabbit hole all day. But you have to find that one that sparked you, and then you go do it.
Speaker: Yes. Oh, okay. That is gold what you just said there. So you're on a rabbit hole. You see something that,
"Ooh, I wonder if I could do that." I
Speaker 2: wonder if I could do that. Yeah.
Speaker: Yep, right? So then you actually go at that very moment and you Go do the thing, and then when you get stuck, go [00:11:00] back to the video and go, "Wait, uh, h- I don't understand what happened here.
Let me at watch a little bit more of the video." And it's kind of like a going back and forth so that you can be doing while you're going down that rabbit hole. Right. But it allows you to actually learn something instead of ah, someday I want to do that.
Well, no. Make that someday today, and give it a try. Right. Right? Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker: Yes. I am a completely self-taught person on the computer. You and I are probably very close in age, and when I got out of college, computers were not something that were taught-
Speaker 2: Right
Speaker: So when computers came I bought them and started teaching myself desktop publishing. So I never took a class, I just had to figure out how to do it. And I was allowed to teach upper level digital illustration at the college level from my self-taught computer skills.
So I mean, it, it can happen. But you have to know [00:12:00] when to actually apply the things that you're curious about, right?
Speaker 2: Yes. Yes, which goes back to your program. Like you have to refine it, and then you have to release it, go try it. Yes, absolutely, yes.
Speaker: Yeah. Right. So I love, I love the f- the fact that you've got discipline when you're falling down the rabbit hole.
Now let's talk about Salz and Peppa. Okay. Who are they?
And how did they come about?
Speaker 2: Okay. Thank you, Beth. Uh, so there's a pizzeria in Brooklyn. It's been there for, for a long time. Italian family Love this pizzeria, just passed down generations. There were also some cats. Visited there, of course. Great pizza.
Chef Antonio's. Okay, so now that was decades ago. So fast-forward to where I am now, and I'm thinking children's stories, and I also have two cats. And I'm like, what if, my two cats," they're not, their names aren't Salt and Pepper. It's Lizzie and Dixie. But what if these two cats became part of the story, and what if [00:13:00] they became detectives solving,
Like, why did the pizzas go missing? And it just kinda grew. It started with a story, right? A simple story. A pizza's missing. The two cats. Who took the pizza? Chef Antonio has no idea, so the two cats are gonna try to figure it out. And I wrote the story, and all that went good, and tried to pitch it.
And, and then I thought, "Well- What if I just published it on my own and it either succeeds, that's great. If it doesn't, it's still okay. I've shared the story. Nobody is controlling me.
I'm gonna try it anyway, right? Just back to that philosophy. What if I did it? And then as I was working on that detective story, I was thinking and brainstorming with my kids. I'm like, "Well, that's great, a bedtime story.
That's nice, but what if it became more?" what if, for example, like once a month they got a mini mystery every month from Salt and Pepper, a new mystery to solve. And then The parent could decide, hey, I'm gonna sit with you and work on this and be interactive, help you with your critical thinking and your judgment.
For example, in Salt and Pepper don't jump to the conclusion of who took the [00:14:00] pizza. You might not have the whole story, right? Or, or in some cases, 'cause I remember this as a working mom, uh, my husband and I are both working and trying to raise two kids. Maybe you just need the kids to have something to do for a minute while you make dinner, right?
So, you know, that's what that's all about. It grew, and then as I was writing, 'cause all the monthly detective kits have already been developed. Then I thought, well, what if we introduce new characters? And then it grew into a whole world, and my son, who's all into Dungeons & Dragons, he's like, "Mom, you gotta build a world."
And so it just became such a fun project. And so I've invented Chef Antonio's entire backstory, his family, his cousin. I mean, his mom and dad are in one of the mysteries now. There's more characters besides Salt and Pepper and Vinny and Pickles. You know, it's just, it's so much fun to make this creative fictional world.
And so that's, that's kind of how it grew, Beth
Speaker: I love that. So what what is [00:15:00] available now?what are the products that you pulled together?
Speaker 2: so I have an Etsy shop.So there's some things there, but there's a monthly detective, uh, agency.
We're calling it The Agency, so every month a parent could sign up for that on our website. I hired a professional and bought the domain saltandpepper.com because, again, I didn't know I could do this and it wasn't taken.
So now I, I, Beth, I own a domain. that's kind of exciting to me. And then, wait, I know I'm jumping all around, and I swear I've only had one cup of coffee.
there's this other thing I learned called Gumroad, and that's where all my free printables are right now because the website is literally only a week old. I'm, my plan is to put all the free printables on the website so people can just immediately, parents can just immediately get it there and download it.
And free printables means mazes, word searches. The two I really love. Finish the Story, right? So it's got a little bit of the story and then I want the child to be creative on their own and finish the story. How do you think the story should end?
And then there's another free printable [00:16:00] called Roll a Story, which is kind of fun. You roll the dice, and then depending on the number on the dice, there's columns and the child can, like, put the story together themselves. So I'm, I'm trying to encourage creativity onto the next generation as well, if that makes sense.
Speaker: Oh, it totally does. I have five grandkids and, The older ones love board games. They love any kind of game. I mean, that's- Ooh ... the first thing that happens when I show up, "Grandma, do you wanna play a game?"
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: And also, we do a lot of reading. They are voracious readers. And there are s- a couple books that they like where you choose what happens next.
So it sounds like you have a version of that where the kids can use their imagination to decide where the book will go. And one of the things that they love are series. if they've fallen in love with a character, of course, just like anyone that's read a book, you don't want the book to end.
So additional things where they can pal around with their best buddies, that's amazing. So I love how you've [00:17:00] opened up that world and let the kids in, not only to read, but also be creative as well. That's amazing.
Speaker 2: Thank you. There's four more books scheduled. You know, this was the first one that just came out, but there's four more in this series.
And then also, wait, let me share. This part's exciting. This, again, I, I didn't know I could do that. But I made a baby board book. Uh, wait, wait, wait. I got one to show you. A baby board book, okay? Meaning it's like this thick.
Speaker: it's a board book. This one is just about pickles, right? So the, the first book that came out is Salt and Pepper, right? And The Missing Pizza. There's four more stories. The next one is Salt and Pepper and the Mop Monster. Oh, that one's so much fun. A mop monster, okay?
Speaker 2: But then, uh, Pickles needed to have his own little book, and I'm thinking Vinnie. Vinnie is Freddie Mercury as a squirrel. Oh my God, I kinda think, even though I love the cats, I kinda think my boy Vinnie is my favorite now. He's such a New Yorker, but he's Freddie Mercury as a squirrel.
Oh my [00:18:00] God, he's hilarious to me. So I think he's gonna need his own little thing, right? And then we have a YouTube channel. Do you remember the '90s cartoons, like Rescue Rangers on Disney- Yep ... and Darkwing Duck, and they had that little theme song? Yeah. oh my God. Beth, I made a theme song and I made a cartoon trailer as if Salt and Pepper had a TV show, because why not, right?
I wonder if I can do that. and, it's so much fun. and so far the feedback I got, you know, parents, they're like, "Where's the next book?" So it's kind of exciting.
Speaker: Oh my gosh, that, that is awesome. And of course, you know, expand, expand, expand.
Eventually you're gonna have some big producer that's going to say, "We love your idea. Let's get this into action." That's why, you
Speaker 2: know- I hope so.
No. And it's a legacy I'm leaving. books will still be there when I pass on, unless I crack the code on being a Highlander, which I'm still working on. But in case I don't crack that code to live in immortality plan B is, these products and these stories will live on, right?
So that's [00:19:00] my backup plan.
Speaker: I love it. I love it. Having purpose- To get up in the morning every day- Yeah ... that is really a huge health factor. One of the things we talk about here on the podcast a lot is that creativity is like the fourth pillar of health. when you incorporate creativity into your life for you, that passion is real and evident.
It helps your health because it gives you a reason to live every day, 'cause you've got stuff you wanna do. Yeah. that kind of, of fascination lowers stress, lowers cortisol, lowers anxiety, and it gives you, energy to get up every day and do something that gave you purpose. So, I mean, so important.
So important. I
Speaker 2: agree. I agree, Beth. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, and that is important for people who are retired. It is also important for people who are busy with a career. Um-
Speaker 2: [00:20:00] And family, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. So if you have a career that is swallowing your personal life, being able to guard some of your time to allow yourself to have some sort of creative fascination is important.
Speaker 2: And you can do it, but I mean, like Deborah, can you imagine if somebody would have allowed you to start what you're doing now before you retired? I think it would've helped me get a little farther along, like you were talking about, you know, up the mountain 'cause I never, I never, I hadn't stopped to reflect about the, the steps that I've made. But I think it's okay.
I think it worked out.
Oh, absolutely worked out for you. It did indeed. So, let's talk about-Being able to say, "Everything I do today isn't going to work out perfectly, and if I fail, that's okay." what sort of frame of mind do you have to have that says, "It's okay.
Speaker: I'm still [00:21:00] up.
Speaker 2: Maybe I'm wired that way because I've always, I've always been that way. I think it's, it might be when I was around seven, my parents started me in Telemarketing.
My father had a carpet cleaning business, and he said, "Okay, "Go through the phone book one by one, call people up. Here's the little sales pitch." It was all sales pitch written down.
"Call them up, see if they want their carpets cleaned or they want a new carpet." And boy, you learn rejection fast when you're telemarketing. Oh, yeah. People will go click, right? Or you'll get some rude answers or... And you have to develop a thick skin.
I think that started at a young age for me.
I started early with selling and, and learning not to take a rejection personally. if you failed it's okay. It wasn't personal. You had to learn, and it's okay. They didn't like your idea? That's fine.
Somebody else might. And you just keep going,
Speaker: Yes. Okay. So thinking about what you're thinking about is so important. When you have rejection, not to say, [00:22:00] "It's my fault. I failed. I'm not good at this," but instead allowing yourself to use that fail as experience, as getting a thicker skin, as giving yourself confidence to go, "Okay, I'm still here.
And even though- Yeah ... someone said something rude to me or said no I'm still here, and I still have a product that's worth selling. So here I go. I'm gonna go again."
But you never knew when you would get that nice person on the phone. ... When you look at it as almost an adventure that way-
Speaker 2: Yeah. You just, yeah
Speaker: That
Speaker 2: helps. And it's like that online. You've probably noticed this as well, and I'm sure some listeners and viewers have noticed this, on social media. You'll post something, you'll get another couple comments, and then you get a hater. So when I first started the publishing part, and I got my first hater, it was a little devastating because it'd been a while, right?
It, and, uh, and social media was a whole new thing. But then I had another, another coach tell me, "No, no. A [00:23:00] hater is good." "You want haters." I know. Listen to this. You want haters because that means your content now has gotten out of your small family and friends bubble.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker 2: And now it's the, the rest of the world is looking at it. And he said, "If you didn't get a hater, I would be worried because not everybody is gonna like your stuff 100%, right? It's, it's normal to get a hater." And he says, "Just ignore them."
And now when I get a hater, I go, "Yay." Yeah. "I got a hater," right? It got out. Instagram released it. Yay. You know? So yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. The, I ... That's such a good and healthy way to look at it, that- Not everyone's gonna love you. I mean- Right ... not everybody likes the same flavor of ice cream.
That's why we, there are so many flavors. And two, the fact that you have someone tells you that it's not just your mom and your cousins and your neighbors looking at your work, and they're all gonna go, "Love it," Then third, when you get a hater, they're not your people.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker: They're not your people, and you are looking for your [00:24:00] people, and they're gonna form two lines, people who want more of this, get in line, and people who don't want it, just get out of the way,
Speaker 2: Over there, yeah ...
Speaker: not your people. So-
Speaker 2: Right ...
Speaker: being able to look at that in a healthy way to say failure was just part of it, and g- learning from failure, understanding that you're still a valuable person,
Speaker 2: Yeah. You know? You just roll with it. Yeah.
Speaker: You do. You do.
Yeah.
what have you noticed about yourself now with all the things that you've got percolating and bubbling up?
How do you feel about your confidence?
Speaker 2: so there's these confidence meters that I made for my characters, And I posted about on social media. Salt's you know, the little white cat, her confidence meter, and Peppa. But then Vinnie's got a confidence meter that I love to emulate Vinnie's.
He's like, "Oh, yeah, I've already started at 100," and we're just going up. Vinnie you know, he thinkshe's a future rock star. I just love that. We got up this morning. That's [00:25:00] already a bonus, okay? Some people don't, to be fair, right?
From there, it can only get better, right? And like, like we said, somebody doesn't like it, okay, you're not my people. I mess this up, okay, I'm gonna, I'm just gonna try again. Do I know how to do this? No. Do I know how to do an Etsy shop?
No. Do I know how to do print on demand? No. But can I figure it out? Yeah, probably. Yeah. I mean, why not? Worst that's gonna happen is I put something there and it's, it's not good, and then I, I take it down.
Speaker:
Speaker 2: Right? We, we haven't lost anything, Beth.
Speaker: No, we have not. We have not. And that's part of, the release stage in my framework is- Put your tools down and just let it go.
I mean- Yeah ...
Speaker 2: it,
Speaker: it might not be perfect, We're human, nothing is ever perfect. But get it to a point where you can give it a trial balloon, you can set that little ship- Yeah ... sail. And the thing about a lot of things online is they are easy to fix. It's not like you're- Yes ... printing a brochure and 30,000 trees are gonna die i- and if you have a typo, the world will end.
When [00:26:00] you're online, you can go in and fix things. You can always adjust things. It's easy to do. So it's so much easier to say, "Let's see what happens,"
Let me just add. So a year ago, so I started the business in 2025. So a year ago at Christmas, I made my first product on Gumroad and I made my son buy it. I know. Because I needed to test it.
Yep.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm telling my son, "Hey, I need you to buy this. It costs a dollar, okay? I can pay you the dollar." I said, "But Doug, I don't know if it works. I can't buy it myself. and I never had a... I didn't have an email list. I didn't even know how to get an email list.
Speaker: now I have 350 subscribers, which is probably not a lot in the social media world, because my son is like, "Mom, there's a billion people. You're not an influencer." I said, "I know, but more than one person, more than you bought it." So
Speaker 2: anyway
Speaker: it's exciting. Yeah.
When you get to the several hundred mark, you know your past, your friends, your families, your neighbors- Right ... your aunts, your uncles. You start having [00:27:00] people you don't know who want to learn about your things, and-
Speaker 2: That's exciting ...
Speaker: that's a great, that's a great thing. Yeah. Yeah. And it'll just grow and snowball from there.
Speaker 2: Well, check back with me later. We'll see.
Speaker: Absolutely. You're gonna go from 300 to 300,000 in- So confidence is something you said. You believe in taking the shot even when you don't know if something will work. So I think w- that's what we've just talked about, is like let's just release it and see what happens.
Speaker 2: Right. So, right. Worst you do is you get a hater, right? Okay. That's a good sign.
Speaker: Yes. Right? That's a good sign. It is.
Speaker 2: Or you pitch your idea to someone, like a big publisher, right? Scholastic or, or Penguin or, one of the big ones, right? And they say, "No." "Okay. Thank you for looking at it.
That's fine." Yeah. You just move on. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. I think we all have heard the stories of, Dr. Seuss and how many publishers turned him down. I mean, his amazing work got turned down by [00:28:00] countless publishers- Yeah ...
Speaker 2: Yes. If they had just said, "Why don't we try it?"
Speaker: Yes.sometimes you've got something that's unusual that no one's done before. And new stuff, uh, if it's not tried and true and it doesn't look like it fits into a niche or a, formula that's been proven over and over, it is something that is hard to say yes to.
Speaker 2: Or scary.
Speaker: Yeah, or scary. So self-publishing right now. tell us a little bit about what you've done in the self-publishing world and your publishing house that you've created.
Speaker 2: Okay. So Feather Mountain Expressions. so I started an LLC, and I had to learn that. I didn't know- There you go
I didn't know how to do that. Turns out it only cost $50, each state is different, of course, but Colorado is $50, and you can do it all online. And then you have a business, so that was exciting. And I've had to learn all the business aspects, which quite honestly, that that's boring.
The taxes, the expenses. You know what? I really don't like that part. I kind of put that off [00:29:00] until it gets to the point where, oh, I'm, I gotta sit down and do this so that I can figure out my taxes and things, right? And monthly reporting. So that part is not fun in the creative aspect of things. That part, no.
Yeah. But it has to be done, so you have to have discipline to get that- but yeah, you just have to try it. So I have the business, and then you know, you always have those friends like, "Hey, I've always wanted to write a book." I'm like, "Well, okay. With the technology we have today, we can do it."
So I have different pen names. I have a pen name Clarissa Chiffon, but the other books are from other authors, They're just all under Feather Mountain Expressions, And a lot of them, for example, Ben Collingstone, he's,a little older than meSo I end up doing a lot of marketing or figuring out marketing and social media posts for him, and other people are sometimes more involved or they're busy with their other careers, So it just keeps me busy and active with other people and it's fun.
Yeah.
Speaker: That's amazing. So again, something new that you learned. You're like, "I'm not finding a publisher. I'll just start my own [00:30:00] publishing house." That-
Speaker 2: Yeah. Why take no for the answer? If you feel passionate about it, well, let's just go do it.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker 2: Why take no? Why let somebody else tell you no?
Speaker: Exactly. Exactly.
if you're encouraging people to give ideas time before deciding whether they're useful or they're going to be profitable, why do you think it's important to let an idea simply be an idea for a while?
Like, what does that look like? Does that make sense?
Speaker 2: It does, because my first book, Claire LaFleur Goes Everywhere, I had an illustrator that used mostly AI, so it's inconsistent. I, I wanna redo her. She needs, she deserves to be redone, Claire LaFleur Goes Everywhere. But sometimes you just throw it out there,
and you have to market it, 'cause there's so many books, and, get it discovered and I got some good reviews But then it just kinda, it kinda just sat there, and I'm not, if you can't tell f- already about I'm not very patient.
I'm like, "Great. You know what? That can sit there. I [00:31:00] have 20 other ideas that I need to go do. That one's not going anywhere. It can just sit there." And so off I've gone. In fact, in fact, I have so many ideas I have to prioritize them. So I have, like, five other storylines and two other books.
The other two books are drafted, as a matter of fact. But I have so ... I have to prioritize or you'll get scattered, right? The, the analogy I think, uh, one of my coaches told me, he says, "Deb, you've got 20 buckets, and you're standing there with the hose trying to fill 20 buckets. You need to focus on this one and fill it.
Focus on this one and fill it."
Speaker: focus is so important.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker: So important. You've mentioned a couple times now that you had a coach. Mm. So, when did you decide maybe that was a good idea? And is it a business coach for you? Is it a creativity coach? What, what kind of coach do you have, and when did you realize that that might be something helpful for you?
Speaker 2: This is gonna sound funny, but in my career, when you reached a certain point in your career, they offered executive coaching So I had an [00:32:00] executive coach who was a senior executor, right? And you know, he's mentoring down, mentoring someone else like myself.
And so we had a couple meetings, and this coach said to me... Ready for this? This coach, this man coach. Wait, I love men, but watch this. This man coach said to me, "Oh, I think you have ADHD. You need to get some drugs. You need to just calm down. You just need to rein it back in." So after the second time that he told me this, I said, "You know what?
Watch what we're gonna rein in. You're fired. I'm done with your coaching services." Wow. I didn't need this man telling me that I needed to calm the F down, you know what I mean? Like I'll, I'ma do what I want, Beth. And so anyway, so I had a coach that, I got a different coach, not in that program. I got a coach, like, on my own.
I sought out another coach internal to the government. And then just as I've moved on, I've kept in touch with other people, and they'll give me coaching advice and so I don't have, like, a professional paid coach. I just have other life mentors maybe we'll call them. Yeah. You know? And they're like, "Yeah, Deb, Deb, [00:33:00] you have all this energy."
Like the, like in fact, that garden hose. You just need to focus. A couple buckets, right? Don't get rid of your buckets, but just focus on a couple and get your foundation, and then go work on some more, right? I don't want, I don't want someone telling me, "You just need to calm down. You just need to be quiet.
Speaker: You need to sit there and know your place." No. No.
Speaker 2: Exactly. Beth, no, don't, no. No. So I think that also fuzzed me up and kept me motivated to prove them wrong,
Speaker: So you have ideas,
you don't have any trouble realizing and bringing in ideas. You are clearly not running your life on autopilot where you're only focusing on what, what you always do. You're allowing the world to affect you and g- and allow ideas to percolate. For you, when you're in the refine stage, that's where that focus comes.
So when other ideas, those, like, shiny objects come in- Yes ... you're
Speaker 2: like, "Oh,
Speaker: but look at that idea." "Ooh, let's go look at [00:34:00] that." When you have too many projects working, what you end up with is 11 unfinished projects and nothing that gets done, right? So-
Speaker 2: Yes ...
Speaker: in that, in, when you're working in that refine stage, focus is so important So when you have another good idea, what it sounds like you are doing it, is you're like, "Okay I'm gonna put a pin in that," but always have that idea board close by so that you don't lose it, but it doesn't distract you from getting something accomplished.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a giant whiteboard, which I love a giant whiteboard.
Yes, giant whiteboards. Or a journal.
Speaker: Yeah. Yep. Yep.
So it looks like you have figured out a good way to manage your energy,
Speaker 2: my family members they joke
Wait, so let me ... So have you ever heard the story, Mr. Toad's Wild Ride, when he gets a mania? my family's like, "Mom's got a new mania," So they are very helpful for me to, like, Mom, don't start this new mania. You need to finish this one.
Speaker: you need [00:35:00] to focus. before you start your other one. I love that.
So, let's talk about advice that you might give to creatives out there, and it could be a creative who uh, or a person who doesn't even know they're creative yet, right?
So what would you... What kind of advice do you give to people to explore the creative energy like you've done?
Speaker 2: I would say the biggest, the biggest advice I would give someone, and especially it's even easier now, is to take a course.
Sign up for something. When I first got married, my husband and I, I signed us up for cooking classes at the community college. Like, a lot of community colleges have continuing adult education, what I'm gonna call fun classes, like cooking classes or photography or, they even had some hiking classes.
I mean, you just have to, sign up for something. And as much as I love online classes, I've taken a lot of those, I love those too, but sometimes there's something about going to a physical class now and then, to meet other [00:36:00] people, It gets you out of the house.
You sign up for t- photography class. Well, you would assume that other people in that class had an interest in photography. As much as I love to geek out on my computer, I also know that you have to pause and go outside.
You have to meet with other people. You need that other human connection that you don't get on social media despite what they say. That's not the same as face-to-face, So I would give that advice to people looking to embrace their creativity 'cause I think everyone has it.
I think maybe they, they just haven't spent time. Just like when you exercise and you got muscles, you're like, "Oh, I didn't know that muscle, I didn't know that muscle was there. That hurts now," right? So I think it's like your creative muscle, right? You, you have to go, you have to go test it and use it.
That would be the advice I would give folks.
Speaker: I love what you just said, and if... s- from a couple other things you've mentioned earlier on, when you retired, you weren't really sure what you wanted to do, so you tried, you tried different things. Yeah. And so when you know you've landed into a creative [00:37:00] passion that really is- going to be beneficial for you.
What you discover, I'm pretty sure you'll agree with this, is you can't stop thinking about it. You- Yeah ... you go to bed thinking about it. You dream about it. You wake up in the morning thinking about it. You can't- I do ... help but think about it. And so when you're trying to decide what that might be for you, you need to test some things out.
a lot of things you tried that you're like, nope, not really." But when you hit on, what if I did some things with my stories, you were just engulfed with energy. It
Speaker 2: lit me up. Yeah.
Speaker: Yes. It lit you up. So my suggestion, if everyone's listening to this, if you're thinking, "I don't know what my, where my creative passion is, what's my mania?"
You need to go test out some things. And Deborah just mentioned, you know, take some classes. Experiment. But, uh, the other thing that you mentioned was community. When [00:38:00] you find other people that have that same mania that you do, that you can get in touch with personally or even online through a community or a membership or a mastermind, those will be your people, too.
And when you get together with them, they will understand the excitement you have and the pain points you have and all of the steps in between, and those will be your people.
Speaker 2: Beth, I think, I think you nailed it. I think this is similar to the group that you have with your creative program, right? We all don't have to be creative in the same thing.
it's okay that we all got together even though our passions are different, because we're still gonna learn- Yeah
and we're still gonna feed off each other's creativity. Just like you and I talked in the beginning, we were talking real quick about "Oh, Deb, I use this software." And I'm like, "Oh, what do you use?" Right? And so we were... We don't have to be in the same business, but we can still share the techniques and the lessons learned and advice for how to deal with haters
so I think that creative community that [00:39:00] you're building, uh, I think that's great. I love this.
Speaker: Yes. Yes. So for people who are interested in Deborah Shoemaker and all of your passionate creativity and projects, how can people find you? Especially for the, the folks that are like, "Tell me how I can let my children become part of the Salt and Pepper world."
Like, what do they need to do in order to find you and become part of what you're developing?
Speaker 2: Thank you for asking me that, Beth. It- The easiest one is just go to saltandpepper.com. Saltandpeppa, sorry. Saltandpeppa.com. That has everything there. That has free detective activity kits, the downloads, the YouTube channel.
Beth, everything they can find out there.
Speaker: Fabulous. And if everybody is thinking, "I'm not sure how to spell that," do not worry. Go to the show notes. I'm going to have a live link that you can just click on. It'll take you straight to the website. And if [00:40:00] you're looking at this on YouTube, I'll have a slide up there so you can see how it's spelled, so that'll help you as well.
Deborah, this has been such an amazing discussion with you. Your energy is just palpable, and I hope that everyone that's listening is taking a look at their own energy, thinking, "What can I harness my ideas to so that I can have a similar experience?
What can I do, and how can I make that happen in my world?" When you got up this morning, what were you thinking about? Did you have a creative passion that you could explore today like Deborah's?
And if not, maybe it's time to figure out what your mania is or should be so that you can stay creative. Thank you so much for coming and joining us today, Deborah. You have been a brilliant light for a lot of people today. I am sure [00:41:00] that a lot of creative goodness is going to happen from this conversation.
Thank you for coming.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker: Okay, everyone. I will see you again next week. Until then, I want you to get out there and create today
