E141 - Ilene Berns Zare
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Ilene: [00:00:00] Recording
Beth: Hello, my creative friend. Welcome back to another episode of Create Today with Beth Buffington. I have a guest today that I cannot wait for you to meet. Her name is Ilene Burns Zehr, and she is a life and leadership coach, a psychologist, an educator, and an author who helps people navigate their lives with resilience, meaning, mindfulness, and wellbeing.
Ilene is the author of the new book You're Not Too Old and It's Not Too Late: Weekly Practices of Meaning, Mindfulness, and New Possibilities at Midlife and Beyond. Ilene writes the blog Flourish and Thrive for psychologytoday.com, and her passion is inspiring people to flourish in life and work by bringing [00:01:00] mind, body, and spirit into flow with their strengths, their purpose, and their potential.
Do you see why she needs to talk to us today on Create Today? I am so excited, Ilene , to bring you into the Create Today room and have a wonderful discussion with you about creativity and how your life and your creativity brought together this amazing book. Welcome.
Ilene: Well, thank you, Beth. I'm thrilled to be here and be with you in your space and to talk to your audience today.
Beth: Oh, I'm so glad you're here. I've been looking forward to talking to you and having you share your amazing story with, uh, with the listeners today. So I would love it if you would just take a moment and tell everyone a little bit about your background and what made you become the person who wrote this book.
Ilene: It's been a journey, right? Life is a journey [00:02:00] in my book, You're Not Too Old, It's Not Too Late, I talk about the seasons of our lives. And I feel like as I have lived the decades and periods of time in my life, I have grown and changed and learned a lot along the way.
So some of what I've come to share in this book, which by the way, writing a book like this has been sort of a lifelong passion I've been able to share a lot of that in this book. i've studied a lot, I've learned a lot and, I'm a parent, a grandparent anda lifelong learner, one of my strengths. And I feel like this book really offers people a chance to take a look at some practical, inspiring, evidence-informed ideas a- about ways to reimagine growing older with greater confidence, vitality, and purpose.
And when I say growing older, we're all growing older every day of our lives.
Beth: Every day, [00:03:00] every one of us, and that's not an unfortunate thing, that's a fortunate thing.
I like to think that I'm embracing what tomorrow brings and I'm always curious to learn from people like you to find out how I can make myself more understanding in the next chapters and the next chapters that I have coming in my life. So what was the thing that inspired you to write this book?
There's usually that aha moment, right, when you think, "I have a book that needs to be written and needs to be shared."
Ilene: I don't think it was one, one aha moment in this. Like I said, I sort of always had aspired to write a book, and then somewhere along the line actually life was so busy.
and I thought, "Well, you know, this is probably not something I'm gonna do. Maybe I should just put this aside." And then when I started my coaching practice I found that, to get the word out, the common wisdom was write a blog. Write a newsletter. So I started [00:04:00] to do it.
And as I did that, and that was about I'm gonna say 12, 13 years ago, I found, "Oh, you know, I really like doing this. This is really interesting and fun," and I was able to use a lot of what I have studied and learned about, and life experience, and stories from my life. And my husband and I have been married for years and, our family, et cetera, kind of inspiring that.
So I started to write those. Then I had an opportunity to blog for Psychology Today, so I started doing that, and oh, I like this, even more. And then there was an opportunity, it's like, "Well, you know, I'm doing all this writing. Maybe I really could write that book. But I'm not sure if I'm creative enough to do it.
I'm not sure if I really have the sort of the, the ability to do this. So how can I do it? Well, maybe if I write really short chapters like my blogs are."
Beth: Yeah.
Ilene: So the f- this [00:05:00] book, You're Not Too Old and It's Not Too Late, has ideas for 52 weeks. Originally, the idea was I was gonna do 365 days, and as I started writing I was like, "Oh, no."
"This is really way too much to write, but I think I can do, 52 weeks and get some really, good ideas in there." And so it really blossomed from there with the idea and the creativity, and then also the steps and the hard work that kind of go with, creating something like this.
And all along the way I invited myself to really just be open to the process. and to go with the process as much as anything. And that, I think, mattered a lot in this.
Beth: I thank you for being vulnerable to say you weren't really sure if you were creative enough to write a book.
and that these were little steps that happened. I think a lot of us are on a road to a big achievement, and we're not aware that we're [00:06:00] even on the road yet. You were just just, and these were big justs. Just writing a blog, um, just writing for Psychology Today. But all the time you were doing this, you were instilling extra confidence in yourself and realizing that you had a lot to say.
And I think it's when you were doing that that, you probably woke up one day and thought, "I have said a lot, probably enough to write a book." Did you find a lot of the things you had written in your blog or topics you had written for Psychology Today became part of your book? Or was it just a stairstep, to new material that you wrote for your book?
Ilene: Ab- no, your f- your first point is the correct one. Yeah, that was the, one of the places I started, if I'm recalling correctly. It was then, okay, let's look at what I've written about so far. And of course, a lot of what I write about stands on the shoulders of researchers and learners who I learned from, right?
and I, I feel, felt like it was very [00:07:00] important to share that wisdom. And part of what I really do is to take that information and put it together in, in kind of new and interesting ways, and share that along with stories in ways that I hope really people can relate to, right?
Yeah. So that you can take something, so that the reader can take something of interest or something of value from each of the weekly chapters.
Beth: I think it's so important to take like, hardcore evidence, like researchers have found, or studies show, and take that and distill it so that it is easy to understand, easy to apply, and easy to realize how what these studies are showing can be something that you can apply in your own life.
Which is clearly what you've done with this book, 'cause it's very hands-on. Yes?
Ilene: Yes. Thank you. Well, you know, then, one of the models for me was, all along, particularly I think when I [00:08:00] was a young adult and I was sort of searching for, for comfort, for ideas on how do you live this adult life, right?
Was I would keep a, a motivational or inspirational book at my bedside, at my side, and I would read that. And I would a lot of times throw it in my bag and take it with me to work or, on the train or wherever I was going. And those books offered me Companionship, comfort, ideas a lot of times a tool here and there that I could maybe be mindful of or that would be inspirational to me in some way.
And I aspire for my book in part to be that kind of a book, like a companion sort of almost a friend- Mm ... that the reader can keep with us, right? And, and take a look at, here and there as the spirit moves or, read the whole thing, but like a friend.
Beth: Yes. I think that there are [00:09:00] so many young people that probably should get your book and start reading it, because we're all eventually going to get to the place where we are going to be middle-aged, we are going to be looking at retirement. So to be able to understand a little bit more about the frame of mind you could have, should have when you get to be a certain age, and allow yourself to embrace it when it starts to, come on the horizon, such a great idea.
So, reading your book early, do you think that'd be something younger people should do?
Ilene: Y- absolutely. In fact, my, three of my four grandchildren have the book. The youngest not yet, so the three that have it are range in age between eight and 14. The 14-year-old sort of looked at me when I gave it to him, and I said to him, "You know, I know you look at this title-" Uh-huh
and you don't think this is for you, but I'm gonna suggest to you that there are things in here that are for you." Practices and things [00:10:00] that, that you know already about, and I, like gratitude and being thankful and pausing for moments during the day to be present or to be mindful, those were a couple of the examples that I, I gave him. Connecting with other people. So I said, "Yeah, if you want, put it on your shelf, but maybe take a look at it. You might like it."
Beth: I love that. I love that. I also like how you're pointing out a, a lot of the aspects of mindfulness practice. I think that creativity is a lot of stuff going on in your brain,
But in order to let your creativity really blossom to the places it can go, you've got to be able to allow yourself to let yourself be creative, and so much of that is done through understanding mindfulness. can you tell us a little bit more about your thoughts on mindfulness? And then, uh, let's roll right into [00:11:00] resilience, because I think resilience has a lot to do with what you're doing with your mind.
Do you think so? Is it, what are your thoughts?
Ilene: Oh, sure. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I f- I feel like they go hand in hand in many ways. So when we talk about mindfulness I'd like to begin by saying we don't need to be talking about sort of woo woo mindfulness, sitting and meditating, you know, on the floor with the legs crossed.
That mindfulness is really, a way of just pausing and being present for this moment right now. And so we really have the opportunity to be, mindfully present or take a mindful pause in any moment, almost any moment in any day. Obviously there's times when we need to be-- We're driving, we gotta be paying attention on the road, et cetera.
But the idea of just pausing for a moment, and gently inviting ourselves to pay attention to this moment right here, right now. I literally as I talk about it, as I'm speaking right now, [00:12:00] I'm, motivated to just take a breath and notice it, right? Is it calming for myself, noticing my feet on the ground.
There are many, many ways to be mindful and mindfulness does lend itself both to resilience, to creativity, and lots of ways of being in the world. One of the mindfulness sort of practices, although it's really also a category of itself, is just savoring. Mm. Oh, yeah. So pausing, right?
Yes. In this moment just to note this moment. Yes. P- again, pausing to notice just how good it feels to take a breath. Or savoring, the beautiful plates you have behind you and just noticing. Mm. Noticing them. Or, waking up in the morning and looking out the window and noticing, maybe a, a tree or someone walking by.
There are always opportunities for those and so setting an intention just to be more mindful. Mindful of this bite of food.
Beth: Yes. Oh my gosh, yes. [00:13:00] for me, the first bite of whatever delicious thing you've been looking forward to all day. Ilene and I are both from the Chicago area, so we have a lot of pizza,
And to me, that first bite of pizza is the best bite,
And, you can make that an equivalent to whatever kind of food that you want to... like that first bite of cake, or that first bite of chocolate bar, or that first sip of coffee in the morning.
Or even looking at a sunrise, you know, that first glimpse of the sun going up. Whatever for you is something that you find so amazing that you look forward to it. Taking that moment to go, "Wow, and how do I feel?"
Ilene: Mm.
Beth: I used to do that with my girls when something big was happening. And they would be really excited.
I would say to them, "Okay, take a moment. How do you feel right now? How do you feel right now? So I think that is so big, understanding how to savor this moment.
That is giant.
Ilene: I wish I had known to do that with my [00:14:00] daughters when they were growing up in, in the way that I do now.
And when I find myself thinking that, I remember what an elder once said to me, which is, "Life is a learning school." and we keep learning and growing and changing, and we always have opportunities to mindfully notice, new learnings and ideas, and then making a choice whether to incorporate them into our lives.
That's all part of resilience, which, that you mentioned before. Yes.
Beth: Yeah, so tell us a little bit about, mm, like w- to you, what's the definition of resilience, and why should we be mindful of being resilient?
Ilene: So that's a great question and really an important life question. and there are many definitions for resilience, right?
I like to think about resilience as the capacity or the ability to respond to life's challenges and move forward from them. So I've heard resilience defined as the ability to bounce back from life's challenges, uh, [00:15:00] but m- many now are defining it differently than that. It's more the ability to empower ourselves to go forward, right?
Yes. A- and we do that in each stage of our lives or after various events happen, joyful events and challenging events, 'cause all of them are part of life. paying attention to where am I now, right, or what's going on, what can we change what can't we change, right?
And how can I live, as fully as possible in the face of whatever life has served up here? So and the second half of life, midlife and beyond, and I really tend to think, all of our adulthood offers remarkable opportunities for us to be aware that we can amplify our sense of purpose and our meaning,
That we can pay attention to what we've already learned and the wisdom that we've accrued, And keep moving forward from that. That's all part of resilience [00:16:00] from my perspective. And the really good news is that resilience is not just something we're born with and everybody gets a certain amount.
It's much more that it's something that we can grow, we can continue to grow and develop, and that, resilient thoughts, resilient skills, resilient actions can be learned, and anyone can learn them. Resilience is not extraordinary, it's very ordinary. All of us, if we're here- Yes ... have, have resilience.
Beth: Oh, I love the way you said that. It's not extraordinary, it's ordinary. And that it is something that if you don't think you are necessarily resilient, that you can build that, you can grow it. But you have to be mindful that you need to learn it, right? I like to think about the resilience as being that, you're in a terrible windstorm, and you can either break, or you can fall flat, or you can just [00:17:00] bend
And that when the windstorm is doneare your roots deeper so you can hang on better? Are you more nimble so that you're more flexible now? what is it about what just happened that makes you a stronger person?
'Cause we are all going to have storms in our life, and we need to be as strong as we can.
Ilene: Yeah. And I, I would probably, add to that, that, there are times that it's really hard to pick ourselves back up, right?Yeah. We really get knocked down. and maybe it takes a while. Maybe we need some help doing that, right?
Beth: and it's, and it's o- okay when we fall down, you know, when we get knocked down.
Ilene: Sometimes we do need to stay there for a while.
It's true. Yeah. and sometimes we have no choice. We're we're stuck there for whatever reason. but then, What are the small steps we can begin to, engage in to help us, be able to respond? To be able to move forward. it might be the smallest step, and then maybe we [00:18:00] fall back down again, right?
I think having the awareness that resilience is possible, That we can keep going, In the face of what happened is really important. I had a dear friend who sadly was very ill and, and actually passed away not long ago. And she even in her last couple of weeks of life still was resilient and knew she was, and still was very interested in what was going on around her.
Very interested in creating situations so that loved ones could continue to flourish afterwards. Very interested in making sure that a food pantry nearby us got a flyer about something that was gonna be going on. She in my mind was a role model for resilience.
Beth: You know? I, I love that.
Glass half full.
Ilene: Yeah. Well, and sometimes resilience is accepting a very, very difficult situation, right? Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. and living within that too, there's a balance, there's, positivity and positive [00:19:00] emotions, and then there's also, the difficult emotions and the difficult times.
And different situations call for different s- different responses
Beth: Yes. I think resilience is, kind of a way when the storm has passed also for you to look back and say, "What did I learn for if and when something similar happens to me next?"
do you think it's a way to build strength?
Ilene: Yes. Yeah, and what you mentioned there, to be thinking about, what did I learn from this situation? Mm-hmm. That's a really resilient kind of question to ask oneself.
Beth: Yeah.
Ilene: You know, what did I learn from this? M- what might I want to remember and take forward? And what might I do differently next time?
Beth: Yeah. It's a big word, resilience. I love it. I love it. So let's, um, take a look at creativity in your life. I know you've, written to me about how you're putting creativity into your world, and you've [00:20:00] divided it up into two categories.
You've got your big C creativity, and you've got your little c creativity. Can you explain what those are and then how you use them as a tool in your life?
Ilene: Sure. Yeah, and I did not come up with those terms. Others did, but I, I have found them very useful. So, big C creativity is kind of like what we think about, you know, I'm gonna paint this great art piece,
I'm going to design this beautiful, whatever. I play the guitar and I'm a beautiful singer. Like, the kind of creativity a lot of us aspire to and some of us reach. And then there's little c creativity I like to think of as everyday creativity-
...
Ilene: That is really accessible, I, I would say, to, to virtually all of us when we really pay attention to what creativity is and how it may manifest in our lives.
I know for myself, I used to think of myself as creative, and then when my children [00:21:00] were young and I was busy working I thought, "I don't have time for this creative stuff." And then I've sort of returned to it with greater vigor in this, this more recent seasons of my life.
But as I look back and as I learn about creativity, I realize having raised the two very creative daughters women who lived in my house when they were growing up, how creative they are, and they had to have gotten some of that from somewhere. Right? So-
Beth: Take credit. Take credit.
Ilene: But I mean,
We used to do art projects and craft projects, We would, go outside and, dig in the ground and, plant things, we sewed. And then in all of the things that I did that I realize, when you're rearranging your house,
And I don't mean big rearranging. I mean,turning this picture this way or that way or, cooking- and putting the food nicely on the plate. Putting plants in the window. I mean, just all of the kinds of things we just might do in the [00:22:00] day to day of our lives.
Even, I would say, pausing to read, a quote or a saying and enjoying it. There's creativity involved. Either appreciating the music of others. I play around on the guitar not very well, and it was even less well, when I was younger, but I would be able to play, Mary Had a Little Lamb, et cetera, on the guitar for the kids at Brownies and Girl Scouts, et cetera.
Well, there was some creativity in that.
Beth: Absolutely.
Ilene: I think the idea here is those are all small C creativity. And so one of the tasks here is just, opening to the idea of that creativity really is natural.
It's one of the 24 character strengths common to humankind.
we all have the, have it or have, at least have the potential for it when we invite ourselves to notice it within ourselves.
Beth: I love that you've said that, that it is something we all have because as someone who coaches [00:23:00] about creativity, the number of people I've talked to who will say, "Well, I'm not creative.
I can't even draw a stick figure." It has nothing to do with your drawing skills. It has nothing to do with how well you might be able to paint a picture, or do some watercolors, or sculpt something. It is everything to do with, like you said, just how you're seeing your world and how you want to arrange your world, and how you appreciate colors.
A color choice is creativity. Having a favorite color i- is making you authentic to your creativity. How you choose to decorate your house. All of those things are you letting your creativity loose. And when you can be aware that you are creative in that way, that is when creativity can become a tool for you to make you feel a little bit more grounded in who you are and happier with who you are.
imagine if your younger self could have been told you are [00:24:00] creative even though you're not doing big C creativity, but you were being creative with your girls or how you were arranging your house. Would you have thought about yourself differently,
How do you think that would have, um, affected you as a young adult?
Ilene: That is a great question, and I think really an, an, a salient and important one. And I think that, yes, I would have thought of myself differently. Looking back, I actually realize how creative my mother was. Ah. And she did not think of herself as creative.
... yet she was. She, we had a wedding shower at our house, and she took pieces of cloth and, made tablecloths out of them by pulling the strings out of them and making fringes. She would carve the watermelon and put watermelon balls in there.
She would make paper flowers. she liked to sketch a little. And, but she did not think of herself as creative at all. And I look back and I think, "My mom was pretty creative." Very creative. But again, so she [00:25:00] didn't share that idea really with me in an intentional way.
Yeah. but yet I learned it. So I think, to your point, Beth, the idea of noticing mindful noticing with our children or our loved ones or our friends, ways that they are creative is very helpful. and I, if I can share one other story.
Beth: Please.
Ilene: When I was thinking about writing this book a coach that I was working with, a, a colleague coach who was coaching me some of my writing, and I said, "You know, I'm not sure I'm a real writer.
A real writer would have an outline, and this is how they would do it. I'm just sort of like looking for stuff here and, you know, coming up with ideas, and then I think I'm gonna write about this, but I write about something else." And she explained to me that I was a developmental writer,
That there was a name for this. And that my writing develops as I go along on any particular [00:26:00] project. For me, that offered so much validity Actually even having that recognition by another person and then that label for it that offered me really the perspective to open to a lot of possibilities that I had not yet really noticed or even thought possible.
Oh my gosh. And really a wellspring.
Beth: Yeah. That was a huge confidence booster for you to understand that, oh, I don't have to- rearrange the way I organize my thoughts in order to become a writer.
I'm sure you got off that call and just thought, "Full speed ahead. I'm a developmental writer. Let's go," right?
Ilene: Mm-hmm. And that's one of the beauties of coaching. and also of just sharing with people, talking with people, and the value of relationships,
Relationships are so [00:27:00] important in each season of our lives, and they don't have to be relationships with loved ones. They don't have to be, a super relationships. Even micro moments of connection with other people are important and really can help us be resilient and help us to flourish in our lives.
I've gone off a bit here in, in another- No, I love that you did that ... tangent, but all of this is part of this.
Beth: it's just, it's so true. You can be having a horrible day, and you'll be out at a store, and someone will say to you, "I really love your haircut," or, "I really like the dress you're wearing," or ask you a question about, "Is this long-grain rice or short-grain rice?"
And if you have the answer to that and they thank you for it, your day is rearranged a lot. Small things like that can really make your day and then you can flip that around and think, "How can I make someone else's day in that same fashion by letting them know what I'm thinking anyway?"
So if you see someone who has a cute dog and you say, "I love your dog," or, "Your baby's adorable," it brightens their day. those little things make a [00:28:00] big difference. So little to big, like someone saying, "You're a developmental writer, you're strong in what you're doing. Carry on," those kinds of things are giant.
Yeah. Well, you know, w- what you're sharing reminds me of another strategy that I write about in the book, that there's been a tremendous amount of evidence showing, and that is practicing gratitude and thankfulness. Mm, yes. And that really, fits a lot with much of what we've been discussing here, right?
Ilene: Noticing the goodness in life even in small moments. pausing for a moment of gratitude. And, as a, a creative person that I as I now think of myself, I'm very thankful for the creative moments as well. And so, pausing before I begin if I know when I'm gonna be doing something creative or after, just to be thankful that this was a possibility.
That this has been able to emerge, i- is really life-giving and opens, like, a wellspring- ... for possibilities.
Beth: I was just [00:29:00] thinking about when you're able to take that moment and hold it and look at it and savor it, it allows you to have those moments of celebration
if you had never stopped to take a look at what you had written in your blog or the topics and themes you had written for Psychology Today, maybe the book would never have been written if you wouldn't have realized the wealth of information that you had accumulated in your past.
Ilene: For sure. For sure. you know, I still print stuff. So I had printed these things, and I laid them all out on a big table and was like, "Oh, wow," "Look what I've done." Yeah. We could start with this, yeah. You know, and then what, right?
When I started to study psychology, before I did that, I, there was the same sort of moment when I looked around my house and I thought, there's a lot of psychology books in this house, What if I took them and put them all [00:30:00] together?" And there were shelves of them- Ah ... when we did that.
So those moments of pausing and just noticing, and it can be about, the goodness in our lives or just noticing, what is around us and, becoming present to that. And maybe the observations we make are ones that are pleasing, and sometimes maybe the observations are not as pleasing.
But in any way, those kinds of things can still be, important and and in some way life-changing And that's important.
Beth: By pausing to do that and understanding, "These are things I need to celebrate and also saying, "And these are things maybe I would like to adjust or change," or, "What can I do to make myself stronger in these areas?"
So that you've got a balance of, um, "I'm amazing, but I have work to do," That is part of growing your resilience.
So you mentioned about the habit of creativity in your life. So what in your life has become a [00:31:00] habit in your creativity, and how has it helped you become, more productive with your writing skills?
Ilene: I have come to a place where, in the mornings I have, a practice. of waking up in the morning and pausing and offering a blessing. but then also thinking about some things I'm grateful for.
that's a habit or a practice that, I have found helpful, to think about three things that I'm thankful for, Mm-hmm. And also then to set a bit of an intention for the day. Not a long list of to-dos.
It may be just, my intention for today, you know, is to, notice a moment of creativity in the day, or to notice the possibilities in today, or to connect with someone today. but to just set that tone or that intention. That's one of the, one of the practices. I find, in a more pragmatic way, it's really helpful to have a place where I have some of my creative stuff.[00:32:00]
And I realize all of our lives are very different in terms of what that can be like, but there was a point that it was just a crate, where I kept some of that stuff. You know? I'm fortunate to have space in my house but having some sort of a touchstone, even a prompt or a reminder, let's say, on the mirror, remember to be creative or or a reminder in the phone, you know, time to be creative now.
Mm-hmm. Some of those kinds of things are very helpful. Lao Tzu, the, uh, Chinese philosopher is is quoted as saying, "The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step."
Beth: Yes.
Ilene: I find that's very important, and it's something that I also remind, clients about.
And in the book, this idea that It's one step, one step, one step, one step, right? And the steps don't have to be big. Even if it's just one small step, you're moving in the direction.
Beth: Yes. Right?
Ilene: So maybe today [00:33:00] for me with my writing, I, I'm just gonna move some stuff around,
Or I'm gonna write a sentence. That's all. I do a little bit of, very little bit of drawing now. to get started with that, one day I just went in the closet and pulled a box down where I realized I had all of the sketchbooks that I had bought over the years I never did anything with.
Well, now that box was down. Then the next day, I opened it and pulled it out and looked at it. Yes. It's taking a long time, but it's step by step. And I think to be open to possibilities. this beginner's mindset that's also, part of the mindfulness world, wherever I am now, that's okay.
that's where I'm beginning from right now.
Beth: Yes. Yes. So many things you've said make so much sense. the little snackable movements that you've made- Mm-hmm ... in order to get to a goal, so important.
Ilene: that can be broken down in so many ways with exercise or with a creative project that you wanna work on,
Beth: Ilene
Ilene: The key is to be [00:34:00] consistent at it, right? That you, you come back to it the next day and you add to that, Yeah.
Yeah. And, and some days we don't get there, right?
Beth: Uh-huh.
Ilene: Right. And that, and that's okay too. So I, you know, I didn't do anything with this last week or with, the last few days so today is a new day.
Beth: Mm-hmm.
Ilene: I'm gonna st- I'm gonna start from here.
Beth: Yes. The- Today ... it, being able to have grace with your pace I think is what I like to say.
Mm-hmm
Ilene: Absolutely, yeah. in my book I talk a lot about, some of these practices and strategies that can help us toward creativity as well as just to live with greater flourishing in our lives, and there's also a lot of questions, Questions we can ask ourselves, and then be open, to what some of those answers are, because in pretty much any situation, if we pause and we, as you said, give ourselves some grace or just be patient with ourselves then we think how do I go forward from where I am today?
Beth: what kind of ideas would you [00:35:00] offer to creatives who are listening today who think, "I have a project similar to a book," or, "I have a book that I would like to write"? what kind of ideas do you, can you give to, encourage that kind of momentum, that kind of resilience that we've been talking about today?
Ilene: I think, from what we shared about today, which is, one, to be patient with oneself.
Beth: Yes. Yes.
Ilene: To let it be okay to begin where I am today. And then what's the next step? It makes me think about hope, an actionable hope, which has goals, pathways, and then action steps, And it's not just optimism. There's some teeth to hope, right? It's a great predictor of wellbeing. So having goals for oneself. What are the pathways? What are the steps I'm going to use to get there? What are the workarounds when I don't do those things? What's another way I can do it?
And then taking [00:36:00] those steps.
Beth: I like that, that, uh, idea of the path that you'll take.
how do you find ways to give yourself the permission to be creative when life is really busy and chaotic?
Does that make sense?
Ilene: Mm-hmm Well, I think at this point I've really learned that being creative helps me thrive. I love that. Like, I'm a better me when I have a chance to be creative. And creativity and all that goes with it is very meaningful to me, And that's very, very important for each of us to be thinking about what really matters, what gives me purpose, what is meaningful.
that's one of the sort of cornerstones of flourishing. And uh, for me, the fact that these creative endeavors are very meaningful and very important to me in this season of my life matters a lot.
Beth: Knowing that [00:37:00] creativity is important is, like, the first step. And then the second step would be to allow yourself to realize that your creativity is is a priority. I think that a lo- so many of us think about, like, uh, my creativity would be, uh, I would like to spend some time this evening doing some watercolor, or I'd like to, I would like to be able to knit some, or I would like to bake some bread, or whatever that might be.
But in the back of your head there's that, but I have to get everything else done for all the other people- Mm ... and all other responsibilities, and then I'll get to what I would like to do, because that is frivolous. So how do we make, how do we get ourselves to understand that- Creativity is doing something so much more powerful than just knitting a blanket or a sweater or baking a loaf of bread.
That there's so much more about [00:38:00] our confidence, our resilience, and being mindful and finding contentment, and it is through that actual act of creativity. So how do we give ourselves the permission to take the time out of this crazy day to do something that we've been told is something you only do when you have extra time?
Ilene: Well, your comment invites the idea of prioritizing,
Beth: And where does one prioritize? Where do we prioritize creativity in the scheme of our lives? And then to think about how do we do that and what are the priorities. Yes. And the word that came to my mind when you were speaking just now was self-compassion-
Ah, yes
Ilene: as well, right? So there is compassion for others and self-compassion. Uh, compassion for others begins with compassion for ourselves. And compassion for ourselves is about taking care of, what we need. Mm. And not [00:39:00] just not just in a way that's just all about me.
We can also be with the understanding that when I'm compassionate towards myself and taking care of myself, I am also better when I'm out there in the world, and I can contribute more. So it's a win-win all of the way. So if creativity is part of what's important to sort of feed your soul or for self-care in some way then perhaps, that needs to be thought about when prioritizing for the day.
Beth: I love that, yes.
Ilene: And also, manageable goals, right? Manageable objectives. So, one might want to spend five hours working on whatever this project is, but life doesn't permit that.
Beth: Yes.
Ilene: So what is a manageable objective- Exactly ... and a manage- manageable timeframe?
Beth: Exactly. I talk a lot about the micro moments of creativity.
Mm-hmm. And that you can do a lot of creativity even in as little time as five [00:40:00] minutes if your day is that crazy.
what is it that you could do today that will be allowable in your time but still give you that moment of release?
For sure. What does that look like? Yeah.
Ilene: Yeah. Yeah, so being realistic about what the goals are. Yeah.
Beth: Yeah.
Ilene: And also to your point before, you said even five minutes, sometimes even less. I know when I was learning to exercise how difficult it was. Mm. So I would say to myself, "Okay, just put the gym shoes on."
Beth: Yes.
Ilene: Or, "Just get on the yoga mat. Just get on it and sit there." And then if I don't feel like doing any more, I can get off. Mm-hmm. "Okay, I'm here on the yoga mat. All right, I'll move for a minute."
Beth: Yeah. "
Ilene: Okay, I've done that. Now, well, okay, I want, I can do another minute."
Beth: Yes.
Ilene: And just being generous enough with ourselves to just take that even very tiny first step.
Beth: Yep. Start tiny and then can you add to that- Yeah ... just to build it? Because adding to the time you [00:41:00] allow yourself to be creative is just going to build your creativity. And like you said creativity allows you to be more empathetic to others because of what you were able to glean in that moment of rest, creative rest.
Ilene: Yeah. Yeah.
Beth: Yeah.
So how can people find you? Where do they need to go? And, just share the projects that you're excited with right now.
Ilene: Thank you. the biggest project that I'm excited about now, right now is my new book that was just published from MSI Press called You're Not Too Old and It's Not Too Late: Weekly Practices for Meaning, Mindfulness, and New Possibilities at Midlife and Beyond.
It invites readers to reexamine, assumptions about growing older, to consider shedding some negative viewpoints that we might be carrying, trying on new ideas as we face what life serves up and strengthening, our capacity for greater meaning, wellbeing, joy in day-to-day existence.
It [00:42:00] really offers a lot of stories, of research-informed practices to help people to, inspire transformative possibilities in each season of life.
So I'm real excited about that. It's available where you buy books pretty much anywhere, certainly, Barnes & Noble, Amazon, through the publisher and, uh, as well as bookshop.com.
Beth: Yeah. Yeah. And if you're looking to buy the book and you can go to your local bookstore support, support, support those small bookshops. But yes. Yeah. And libraries
Ilene: as well.
Beth: Yeah. Libraries
Ilene: as well.
Beth: if someone's interested in learning more about you through your coaching, where can they find you?
Ilene: my website's a great way to learn more about, what I do, find information about the book, about coaching, ilenebernszare.com or ibzcoaching.com. There are also links there to a lot of resources, including my newsletter which I've been writing for a [00:43:00] number of years.
It's called Flourish and Thrive. And you can sign up for that newsletter there. Can also read, at my Flourishing, blog at psychologytoday.com. and I really love sharing these ideas with people just offering, people, ideas for, ways that they might wanna consider in terms of being, present in the world.
Beth: Oh, such important information you have to share, Eileen. I love the s- the message you have, the stories you've shared, and just the goodness that people can find through, your book. And thank you so much for taking time to come and talk to us today. So listeners think about what we s- what we've spoken about today.
Resilience, mindfulness, l- uh, leading ourselves into the next chapter of wherever we are in our lives. We need to take a look at what we're doing to build that confidence, that resilience, and just because we're getting older doesn't mean we're not [00:44:00] capable of doing amazing things. I am 64 years old, and I'm running my own business, and I'm loving every day I get up and what I do next.
Everyone can just keep looking at what they can do tomorrow to make themselves happier in heart, mind, body, and soul. So take a look at what you're doing today. Find a little time you can be creative, and let yourself rest in those creative moments. And whatever you do, as you know, my wish for you always is to stay creative.
Thanks so much for coming today. I appreciate your time, Eileen. And I know everyone is gonna get so much goodness from the stories you've shared today.
Ilene: It's been my, my pleasure. Thank you so much, Beth. It's just been a pleasure to talk with you today.
Beth: I'm so glad you're here. Everyone I look forward to hearing from you about your thoughts, and I will see you again next [00:45:00] week
