E16 - Guest Jennifer Smelker
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Beth: Welcome to the BDI podcast today. We have a very special guest. Jennifer Smelker is a great creative friend of mine that I have met in some of my conferences. And we have kept in touch. I am blown away by all the creativity this girl creates and how she has created it. She's going to be a great person for you to get to know today.
Not only in the things that she's creating, but how she thinks about how she creates. So Jennifer, welcome to the BDI podcast. We are so glad you're here with us today.
Beth, I'm thrilled to be here. I'm just really glad that you asked and I'm happy that we get to chat today. Yes. Yes. So let's get right down to it.
First of all, Jennifer has a [00:01:00] really interesting story to tell. I just want you to tell our listeners about how you became an artist who is selling your product. Tell us about your background story.
It's not the typical story I would say. I was always creative as a kid. I didn't really think about it at all.
It's not that art wasn't encouraged in our home, but , I had always wanted to take drawing classes, but for some reason, looking back, I never articulated that. And so it wasn't that art was discouraged, but it was just never really encouraged either. It was just we would go to museums and we would see art, but it wasn't anything that we created in our home.
And my dad was really into photography. And so as a teenager, I learned photography from him. And so I took a lot of pictures, all my teenage years on have been chronicled by pictures. And so there were some glimpses of creativity and always wanting to draw, but never being able [00:02:00] to get the pictures that were in my head out on paper, the way I wanted them to
So I would sew, my mom taught me to sew.
And again, those things don't sound artistic, but they were creative and they were like the seeds of creativity where they're growing up. But it really wasn't until after I went to college for an engineering degree and graduated. I'm an environmental engineer and I have my PE in civil engineering.
So I have this creative side, but I have this really analytical side too. So I have both sides to my brain. And once I moved to the town that I live in now, it's a little beach town and on Lake Michigan, very artistic community, and I was just curious. And I've always been a curious kid and engineering was a good fit for that because of that curiosity.
And so I'm going to take a painting class. So I took an acrylic class. I took an oil class and I took a watercolor class and I didn't [00:03:00] stick with any of them. I just did them at the time. And it almost reinforced that I still couldn't get with what was in my head out on paper, the way I wanted it to, that creative side was always and it still is to this day, worrying with , my, my analytical side.
And when I was in college, I had taken a job to work on our university staff of our newspaper. And so I actually learned graphic design software at the time, way back, if anyone remembers QuarkXPress, the original Photoshop. And yep, So dating myself completely, but I learned all the software. And so once I graduated from college, I started to do graphic design on the side did it for my first employer, the engineering agency that I worked for.
And just always started doing it for nonprofits. And then that turned into freelance work and I could control it [00:04:00] easier because it wasn't. like a medium of paint that you couldn't control completely. So once I got introduced to, it was way back to CorelDRAW and then later Adobe Illustrator, I had much more control over being able to get the images that I had in my head, the ideas out onto paper.
And then Once the iPads came along and I started with Adobe Fresco Adobe Draw first, and then Adobe Fresco, and then later Procreate then I started to see okay, I can take more risks, because to me, with both my left and right brain, It was riskier to try different things and make a mess, but, oh, I could double tap and it would be erased.
And that felt much more comfortable. So to this day, I still marvel at artists, friends of mine who can just let go and [00:05:00] completely start a project without having a plan and don't know where it's going to end up and turn out something beautiful, I'm still. At times fighting my inner critic. Like I think we all are and trying to not be such a perfectionist and to just let creativity go.
And the older I get, the better I become at that. So like a lot of things for all of us. Oh, yes. I want to point out to everyone how much. easier, Jennifer found it to draw when she was using procreate. And I think a lot of people think, Oh, procreate must be hard to do. Cause it's so gadgety and it's so software oriented, but really it's like drawing that allows you to undo things.
250 times if you're not happy with it. So it does give you that freedom, not to worry. If I make this mark, I'm not going to be able to undo it. I think so many people have that problem on [00:06:00] paper or on canvas it's a pristine piece of paper and. And I have pushed myself to paint more.
I paint with acrylics now and I just picked up some watercolors. I'm like, all right, go back and try it again. And don't be so uptight , some of the paint goes off this way or that way and doesn't look like how I had envisioned it. I look at some other artists. And they have this childlike quality.
And for some reason, when I draw things and they have a childlike quality, I feel like it's junk because it looks like a little kid did it. And yet when I look at other artists, I'm like, I don't feel that way about their art. So why should I? Feel that way about mine. I think so many artists have that feeling especially artists who maybe work more traditionally in a realism area that everyone else can loosen up and their perspective can be off or their lines can be crooked.
And that's fine. It looks great. But when [00:07:00] I do it, it looks awful. And I think it's like a five year old's in it. Yeah, I think that's really common. If you're listening to this right now and you're going, oh my gosh, that's me loosen up. I think you can probably find out that you're doing a lot of really great art and you've just never showed it to anyone because you're doubting yourself.
Jennifer I know this is a great story. Just tell us how you first got started with allowing yourself to say, I am an artist or I am artistic because you said several times. That's creative, but it's not artistic. And what I want to point out is that it, you can be an artist, even if you're not drawing or painting.
If you're cooking and baking . That's art. And that goes the same with when you're sewing, if you're sewing something and you wear it and people are like, Oh my gosh, look at that. I love that. That's an art all by itself.
So it's [00:08:00] like you're being so hard on yourself. So talk about that feeling that you had with. Feeling creative or allowing yourself to think of as an artist. Talk about that.
It took me a really long time to embrace the moniker of artist. I would call myself a designer or a graphic designer and and then it changed into a product designer. But It was always that, almost that caveat of, yeah, I'm not a fine artist, so I don't feel that I deserve that title. I, by fluke, started selling my designs.
It was not planned. I had made a canvas. Basically a very large piece of wall art for a blank wall in our home. And it was all these phrases. So it was font based. And I drew the little icons in Adobe Illustrator, had this three by four foot canvas stretched and it was all the fun things about our family.
And when people came into our home, they saw it and they're like, Oh my gosh, [00:09:00] we love this. Can you make one for me? And this was, 12 years ago. And it snowballed into this little Etsy business and I was invited to an art event and I literally, I thought I don't have any of my photographs framed.
I. take pictures, but I didn't frame any of them. I thought, I don't have anything. And a friend mentioned, we'll take your canvas with you. And I just was like, okay, it's not really art. It's just graphic design. But so I took this huge canvas and brought it down there and was put at a Stationers store and this woman who owned the stationery store, she loved the art piece and she said, you know what?
I love this so much. If you can make something generic, I would love to sell it. And I said I've been thinking about a bucket list for all the fun things to do in this town that we live that has become our home. My husband and I. Neither of us are from here. We chose our community and [00:10:00] chose to raise our kids here.
And it's a great smaller town tourist destination on Lake Michigan. And so there's all these fun things about our community. And so I made my first bucket list with input from my husband and kids and drew all the little icons and put it on. A postcard and it literally sold out a hundred of them sold out in three weeks before the tourist season even started.
And the store owner called me up and she's okay, you have a hit. You need to put this on more things. I need more stationery. I need more postcards, but whatever else you'll put it on, I will carry it. I had no idea how to sell wholesale to a store. This was just a couple of postcards. So she took me under her wing and.
taught me how to sell wholesale and how to price things. And that snowballed literally into, I don't even know how many designs for locations. I have all 50 states now. I have hundreds of towns across the U S [00:11:00] different designs. I've been selling wholesale since 2013, so 11 years now and retail and wholesale.
But even through all of that, it was years in to selling wholesale to other stores. Before I finally fully embraced the idea that, okay, you're an artist, you really are, and you deserve to be, you can be in that circle of people that are not just creative, but are artistic and are actually an artist.
I don't know why it was such a hang up. It was definitely a mental hangup. But over time as people embraced more and more of my designs and then I started licensing my art to other manufacturers and the fact that they actually wanted what I could draw. I'm still amazed. I'll be sitting in the evenings, just drawing little things on my iPad and health.
Suddenly show my husband. I'm like, look what I just drew. It actually looks like it. [00:12:00] Look at it. It just, I'm still amazed at times that I can get what's in my head out on paper and have it actually look right or look fun or look realistic. It still surprises me at times. And that's fun.
So if you had advice to give to someone listening today about allowing themselves to say, I'm creative or I'm an artist. What would you say to them? Get over yourself. Honestly, I just needed to get over myself. It's not that artists are, up on this pedestal. I think I had such a narrow view of what an artist really is.
Cause okay. I didn't paint with fine art. I didn't paint in traditional mediums. And I think especially over the past the past couple decades, Sewing or quilting or even a needle point, or like you said earlier, [00:13:00] baking, there's. all these handicrafts used to be considered just crafts.
And there was almost this distinction between someone who's an artist and someone who does crafts. And I think that line has really blurred over the past several decades in a really good way. I think what used to be just crafts have been taken to a whole new level and an art form. And we've all seen that.
And I think with social media, Now we see more of that and we see more people embracing the creative side to themselves and not just limiting themselves with I'm creative or I have ideas, but know that they're actually an artist. I agree with that. I think that the word artisan has really helped blend that area between, Oh, no, I just do crafts to I am an artist and just the popularity of craft shows and Etsy stores and people [00:14:00] doing their own Shopify stores.
I think that we as a world are very much more interested in an artisan product where we know the story behind it. And we know a little bit about the person that developed it. Those things are really making
I'm a crafter to I'm an artist. And that word artisan really was that . bridge between those two areas. Absolutely. So if you're out there and you're thinking, I wish I was an artist and you're sitting here right now and you're embroidering or you're crocheting or knitting or you're weaving something or you're in the kitchen making a beautiful pie, put that name artist on you.
You are a creative. You are able to do something that is thinking outside the box. And if you're making the world a more beautiful place, then you are creative and you are an artist. Yes, for sure. So now let's talk a little bit about. your [00:15:00] creative business because you, took something that was just hanging on your wall and you built it into a pretty darn good business for yourself.
Tell everybody about spoiler alert, what happened with your engineering job when you started selling and just how you found the confidence to, to build this because, if you have a job as an engineer. You've got some financial stability there. Tell us how you found the confidence to build what you have today. Oh, sure. By that point when I started my business, like I said, I backed into it.
It was a fluke I had not planned. I had stopped working for a while when my kids were younger, and then went back to engineering part time. And so my Kids were teenagers. I was working part time. So this, my whole business was very much in evenings, weekends, fitted in after everybody went to bed.
Total side hustle, but I'm not a boss, [00:16:00] babe. And I'm not any of those things. So it grew very quickly and it became a whole family affair. My husband would help. He was doing my accounting. He still does. My teenage kids were helping stuff pillows and fold note cards. And within one year, I had sewn a hundred pillows.
Sewn and sold a hundred pillows in one day. Annual year. And I was, we're doing everything at the kitchen counter. It was a total cottage industry out of my house kind of thing. We were shipping huge packages and I had been picked up by a department store Bonton, Carson, Piri, Scott, Yonkers.
And so I started off in a few of their stores and that snowballed into 120 of their stores. So I was putting out a lot of product. And finally, my husband's you need help. You have got to move this out of the house and you've got to figure this out. And he's also an engineer. He's a mechanical engineer.
And [00:17:00] both of us are very everything's figureoutable. Everything is, I don't know how to sell wholesale. I'm going to figure it out. There wasn't much on the internet when I started about selling wholesale at all. So I just. Trial by fire made a lot of mistakes, but just kept pushing and persevering.
And that helped give me the confidence to just keep going. Cause I just figure, all right, I'm going to figure it out. I had the project management experience for my engineering job. And and even with engineering, there's that innate curiosity, but also the problem solving skills. And so I just applied that to.
What I was doing. Oh, I want to put it on this kind of product. I don't know how to get that made, but I'll figure it out. And just doing a ton of research and asking questions and figuring it out and getting it made. And so I would make all my prototypes and work with other companies, but we did a lot of it in house.
And I [00:18:00] finally started hiring staff and figured out how to do that. And. How to pay them and just all the things. It was intimidating at times for sure, but I had a lot of encouragement from my husband. He was super supportive. And when it came time where I would already, I was in all of the department stores.
I was across the U. S. so many states and had branched into Canada. And I told him, I think it's time I go to my first trade show and I'm going to go to New York instead of Atlanta. Cause it seems a little smaller and not quite as intimidating. And my sister lived outside of New York, so I knew I would have help there.
And I'm like, I have no idea what I'm doing, but. We'll figure it out. So we built the trade show booth and built it in our living room cause it's the middle of winter and I needed to set it up and do a dry run. And my kids were just total troopers. They're used to random odd things. It's going to walk through the living room.
Oh, mom's building a [00:19:00] trade show booth. Okay. And my son and husband built the crate to put the, all the stuff in the kids helped pack it up. And so they've learned, we're very hands on. Thankfully, when it did come time, when I was just very extremely busy, I was in about six figures in annual sales, numerous years in a row, and I was just very overwhelmed.
And my husband was like, you know what, is it time for you to quit your job? You're trying to juggle so many things. Is it time? And I just looked at him and I. talked about it and I remember talking about it and and I said, yeah I'm pretty, we were both pretty stressed. It was just a lot.
And he's what have you got to lose? You could always go back to engineering if you really want to, if you don't, that's fine too. And I'm like, yeah, I'm fine with not going back to engineering. And he's, Like just go for it and maybe it won't last forever, ride it while it lasts and see what happens.
So [00:20:00] because of his encouragement and just his support, it made it much easier for me to just jump off the deep end and go full time as an artist, as a manufacturer. And that was in 2018. Which yeah, 2018. That fall I went, quit my job and full time ever since. That's amazing. That is amazing to go from engineer to artist with a six figure business.
That's like woof. I can't say it's there now. COVID hit honestly, in the middle of that. And that really impacted everybody's businesses. So retail sales, I have a great fan base, which is super helpful. So my sales during the rest of 2020 were mostly from retail, but up until the pandemic, I'd say 95 percent of my business was wholesale.[00:21:00]
So I really took a hit that year and Made about half of what I had made. Less than yeah, it was less than 50 percent of what I had made previous years. That next year, just with employment issues people not wanting to come back to work. Understandably. And the uncertainty, even sales were really slow the first six months of 21.
And so in the last six months of 21, I did just as much sales that I had done the year previous, but it was in six months. I was so burnt out because it had fallen back to me and I had one workshop helper. Prior to that, I had employees that would do all of that for me and would manage my workshop.
But it had fallen back to me. So by the end of 22, I was really burnt out and I had made it a goal since 2019 to start licensing. And I had one contract, but I really had [00:22:00] not grown that area of my business at all. And I was finding I was, so focused on manufacturing and shipping out orders, wholesale orders that I was not creating anymore and wasn't licensing at all.
And so I had to make the hard decision. Is it time to switch my focus? And so I pulled back on wholesale. I stopped manufacturing actually. So that forced me to pull back on wholesale everything that I had made I still make, I still have made for me but I can't sell it at wholesale prices.
So only a few things do I sell at wholesale and The rest I sell at retail on my website. And so I don't make nearly the money that I did, but my schedule has been completely freed up with not having to manufacture. So now I get to just create and draw all the time. So my licensing contracts have increased because I've been able to [00:23:00] focus on that more.
So of course, so the nice thing about. creativity is that there are so many revenue streams that creatives can visit. And so you right there, you were talking about wholesaling, retailing, licensing. And I know now you've got an online course that you're doing and you are working on that.
Coaching. Yes. So there's growth in the creative industry, but I like to point out that behind every successful artist is a person who did a lot of work.
It might look idyllic on Instagram when you see me sitting on my porch with my dog drawing. And I do have some pretty great days where I get to sit there and just do that, but yeah, every artist that is successful knows there's a mountain of paperwork behind that and emails and following up with companies and putting yourself out there and [00:24:00] pitching and cold calling And that's true whether you're licensing or whether you're selling wholesale or retail.
Yeah, it's a lot of legwork for sure.
Anyone that's going, Oh my gosh, that sounds really scary. I don't think I could do that. Stop for just a moment and think that Jennifer didn't jump into the deep end from the very beginning. She started off with one canvas and then she did Some postcards.
And then she did a little bit more and the nice thing about it is that you're adding what you want to. What you put into it is what you would like to get out of it. If you want to slow down, you can slow down. And if you want to speed up, you can find ways to do that. When you're working on your own and you're working creatively, there is a lot that you can do with that creative accelerator.
Oh, for sure. Yeah. And I think I'm the poster child for not knowing what I was doing when I started. Honestly, when I hear that from other [00:25:00] women that they're like, Oh, that's so intimidating. Or, Oh, I could never manufacture things. I didn't have any of that experience. I had no idea how to sell wholesale.
I didn't know how things were priced. Sure, I like to go shop , but I had no idea how the store owners would structure their pricing. And I didn't know how manufacturers work to make things and bring them to market, to sell to stores. I just didn't know that whole industry.
I literally ground zero and just had the creativity. So I had the creative ideas and I had the I had the gumption. I don't know what word you want to use, but the perseverance to okay, I'll just figure it out. I'll just work through it and research and ask questions and not be afraid anybody can do that, honestly, I really believe that.
I think what I see in you is , you are so curious, like how does that work? Could I do that? Let me just look [00:26:00] into that. I'll bet you there were a few things that you looked into and you thought, yeah that's not my bag, but I can do this, right? So you looked into the things that you researched and then picked what you felt.
Really interested in and then you just figured out how to do that. So find curious things in your life, the things that you dream about, the things that, you are interested in, then go find those things and do like Jennifer did,
yeah I started with a postcard because that was what I knew because I had done graphic design and I worked with local printers. I had a bit of a background in print. So it wasn't 100 percent unknown. I at least knew, okay, I've made postcards before I can do that.
I can make a note card. It's not too far of a stretch. And then, oh, I'd love to put this on a mug and this was all before print on demand companies were in existence. So I just found a t shirt company that happened to do mugs and they [00:27:00] would print them. And I, they ended up, I would get tons and tons broken cause they were shipping them from Florida.
And I just thought I've got to find somebody local that can do mugs for me. And when I found them, they were toying with the idea of fabric. And because I had learned how to sew as a kid and that was comfortable and I'd sewn quilts for my kids and Halloween costumes and, all sorts of things.
I just thought, okay, I would love to sew something. I would love to make pillows with my fabric. I think that would be just amazing and even someday going to the store and seeing my fabric designs on fabric bolts in the fabric store. I would love that. That's a goal in these next few years to have a fabric collection. I think if people start with. what they love or what they have around them and figuring that out. Okay. How can I put my art on that? Maybe you're not a seamstress so then don't look at [00:28:00] fabrics, but yeah, figure out what, is near and dear to you, what you like to shop for and then go from there.
I tell my students to make a list of things that would blow their mind. Like where would you like to see your art? And then if that's my list, I can start thinking about how that can get done,
That's what Jennifer did. It's I'd like to see my things on a pillow.
So finding people that could help her get to the point where she could either sew her own pillow or, finding people to help her sew the things that were already on her material.
If you can think of it, you can probably figure out how to do it. So it's always good to have that list of I want to see my art in a bookstore. I want to see my art on fabric when I walk into Joanne Fabrics. I want to see my art on, dishes. I want to go into a department store and see my art on dishes, make that list.
And then. See what you can do with that.
[00:29:00] Even the whole world of licensing really opened up even further. That happened as a fluke too. I was at my first show in Atlanta and my husband and I were there. We had set up the booth. It was the first morning, which is always notoriously slow. I was in the temporaries and woman walked by and she literally did a reverse and came back to my booth.
And she's I love your style. Have you ever licensed? And again, I like, no, I haven't, but I can figure that out. It was just like, okay, let's figure this out. And, She wanted me to design, to create a bucket list for their company. And they did all of these it was, everything was dog based pet based, but specifically dogs.
So I did a dog bucket list and licensed it to them for their products, their leashes and bandanas and all the things. And it was so fun and they had set products that they wanted it on. But then just realizing, oh, there's this [00:30:00] whole world of licensing.
And that makes sense that other manufacturers, they might have in house artists, but they also need art. It just opened up. I had no idea that was even in existence. And again, it was a lot of companies, They already had their set formats of what they wanted to just take your art and put it on.
But then I got introduced to some companies that they're like, no, we want you to dream of products. And that's just so fun to me because again, that taps back into my engineering and project management experience, but also I had already been designing my own products and prototyping my own products. And so being able to dream up, not just, slapping my art on something, but actually determining, okay, I want.
This shape of mug and I want it to look like this or I want not just a flat piece of wall art, but I want things coming off of it [00:31:00] or three dimensional shapes. And that's just been really fun to be able to partner with companies to help them.
Expand what they make and manufacture.
Yes. It's a whole new area you can go into when you're an artist. And a lot of that has to do with just looking around you and seeing how other products has been put together. And then thinking, what could I do that would be unique with my art that would become a little bit more 3d or add a little element to something that is ordinary, that would just spice it up a little bit.
So all of that is so exciting. One of the things I know a lot of my listeners and a lot of my creative students really wrestle with is their confidence just What helped you get past that part where you thought?
Oh what i'm drawing looks like a two year old did it and it's not what I see in my head how did you get that confidence up to allow yourself to start releasing your ideas and letting people [00:32:00] see them? I know it helped immensely.
Early on, I was a few years in and I didn't have a website. I had been doing this for Gosh, it was at least , three years, and I didn't have a website at all. And my sister is in marketing and she's Jennifer, you need a website. You need to start selling these things. Not just a little craft shows, but you need to start selling it in an online presence.
And you need the blog. And I just, I laughed and I said, Who, who's going to want to read what I have to say? And she just laughed and she's everybody loves to hear the backstory. Everyone loves to hear about Joanna Gaines and not just buy her things. They want the story. So give the story.
It's literally been, nine years now of writing on my blog. And I write weekly and send it out to my fan base. And the fact that I actually have fans, I literally have people who. [00:33:00] Repeatedly buy my products for their town or for their state. And I think just seeing that people were thrilled with what I had created and not only purchased it once, but continually purchased it that of course it boosts your confidence
Because I started in wholesale first, I didn't go to shows, art markets for the first several years, and then I started going, and I would have people come up to me that followed me on Instagram, thrilled to meet me, shaking my hand, and I'm just like, I'm just pretty ordinary, it just, and they, there was almost this little bit of celebrity.
And it was just so funny to me. I didn't expect that, but again, that all adds up and boost your confidence that people really like what you're putting out there. And so gradually over time, and I think a lot of it with any art, , a lot of it is practice, and it's just every [00:34:00] day making sure that, or every week that you're creating, and it might be trying new things too, but just the intentional sitting down and honing your craft, , just that practice improves us, but also, I tried different things and I for sure had some flops.
It was the beginning of 2020 when I put out a brand new collection, 12 different designs, and it totally flopped because. Nobody was buying anything then and just not taking things personally and learning to objectively evaluate, okay, was it the circumstances or did the art really suck?
Or maybe it didn't suck. Maybe I just had the wrong audience. And that same collection that flopped in 2020 it was at a showroom right in their front door. in this past year in January in Atlanta, the exact same designs [00:35:00] and really well received and got a little award for show favorite.
And It was timing. It wasn't that the art was bad. It was just timing
I'm, I cold call and pitch to companies all the time. And the first year of doing that, when I started licensing, I wouldn't hear anything or I would get a lot of no's, flat out no's like, Nope you're Style is too flat graphic.
It's not very painterly. We need more detail. And I've learned to add that in for certain things when different companies ask for that, but that's not my go to style. And I just heard a lot of no's that whole year. , there were definitely times where I'm like, okay, this is harder than I thought it was going to be, but I'm not going to give up because I don't know if I've been in front of the right people yet.
And that was exactly what I discovered. I asked if I could have appointments in January of last [00:36:00] year in Atlanta with these different companies. And I got a lot of yeses. And then when I went there, it shocked me, but. All these companies that I was meeting with liked my flat graphic style and that's the designs they were gravitating towards.
And I figured out, okay, I just wasn't in front of the right audience. It doesn't mean that it's a reflection of our art. It doesn't mean that it's bad. It's just, we haven't found the right people to be in front of yet. We haven't found our own fans. And once we do, it's just, it's been a joy.
Because this past January, a year later, I had art in different showrooms and that's just, that's the best , it's just, I cried. And I both here, I just cried when I walk in and you're like, wow, that, that came out of my head and out of my heart and people are actually resonating with it and like it.
And that's amazing. Yeah, that's just the best feeling. Yeah. So a couple [00:37:00] takeaways that are so amazing with what Jennifer just said that one, no, doesn't mean no, that piece of artwork has no merit. It is a no for now. Releasing in 2020, that was a no for now or it's a no for that audience.
Also, there are studies that show that some people you have to touch three to nine times before they take you seriously, before they will take a look at your artwork or before they go, Oh, I've been looking at this. I wanted to tell you, yes, please. Students that it, yeah, the rule of seven touches.
And with social media, it's even more than that. And until I actually get a no, I don't assume that they mean no, just because I haven't heard from them. Cause if I assumed that there are both in my wholesale business and my licensing, I've had companies. [00:38:00] In both realms say to me, Oh, I'm so glad you followed up with me.
I have been so busy. I haven't been able to get back to you. The last time I was in Atlanta that with my booth, I literally had a woman come up to me. I had been emailing her for three years. And she said, I'm so glad you stuck with it. I was not ready, but my business has grown to the point where now I'm ready to place a big order.
And she did and continued to, it's so easy for us to just assume and give up because we haven't heard from them. But until I get an actual email that says no, thanks. They're still hearing from me regularly
so I know we all do this and that is When you don't get a result that you are hoping for that you immediately go fail instead of saying I still need to work on this, or, I need to reach out again.
You need to give yourself the benefit of the doubt and [00:39:00] say, keep working instead of I'm a failure, because when you give yourself that feeling of ma, wa, wa, then you just want to crawl in a hole somewhere and give up.
I know there are people that I have finally gotten yeses from and people, there is nothing that feels better than finally having someone that you've been trying to get ahold of who finally says, Oh, I'm sorry.
Yes, please. We want to do these things. And then seeing something actually. Blossom and show up in a showroom and do well. Those are really good feelings, but part of that work Isn't the accounting it isn't the manufacturing and isn't the creative the artwork it's the follow up and sometimes that is the hardest part because That takes confidence in yourself to say I'm sure they've just been busy.
Maybe they didn't see my email and all of those things can be true
when an email comes into someone [00:40:00] that receives a lot of email in the day, it falls to the bottom and it gets buried and some of them just clean out their inbox by getting rid of anything that they haven't looked at in the last seven days.
And so your email never even got seen.
We don't fail. You're learning. And the best inventors, the best engineers, they don't see it as, they can see it as failure, but literally how many times. In trying to invent something or perfect something, the operation of something, an engineer doesn't see it as a failure. They see it as, okay, I'm learning that this didn't work.
So now I need to try something else. And I just apply that to my artistic life too. And my business life. Okay that didn't work. Nobody responded to that. So either I don't have it in front of the right people, or maybe I do need to go back and refine it and get better. And because we're practicing in our art [00:41:00] more and more often, you are getting better.
Just like any other artist, I look at what I used to draw and look at how I draw today. And. Oh my gosh, thank goodness. I'd never, put those original art journals out there because that really did look like a five year old, but I'm, and I'm sure that I will look back on where I'm at now and there's different phases and we all learn and grow and improve.
And so you can learn from that too. I don't see it as a failure. I just see it as a learning opportunity. And I hope the people who have been listening to the podcast on a regular basis have noted that I've had several of my guests that have come on and said, failure is not a word you should use.
It might be something that you think you feel, but that's what you need to push away sometimes that artwork that you have been trying so hard to get in front of somebody, when it finds that right audience, boom, it's going to be [00:42:00] magical.
Now, here's another thing I wanted to point out that Jennifer said that I think is really key for anyone that is trying to grow a business right now. One of the things Jennifer said was, This was back in the day before there was YouTube or online tutorials, and you had to learn how to do something on your own because there was nowhere to go to learn.
And something I think is Huge is that for artists, for creatives to really find traction in where they want to go and how they want to grow, they need to be a lifetime learner. And that is easy to do now. There are so many places you can go to find those tutorials, those online courses that you can take to learn things.
And secondly, pay attention. To find your people who are doing similar things like you so that you can learn and network from them. So community is important and and also being that [00:43:00] lifetime learner. And you can see that Jennifer has done that. She needed to do something. She learned how to do it. She taught herself how to do it.
She figured it out and figuring it out. That's learning. I also. I might have been hesitant, but I wasn't afraid to ask someone. Because there wasn't as many resources there wasn't print on demand. There weren't the Facebook groups like there are today. I literally would find other people, originally I started with the store owner.
There's no dumb questions. So I just asked, I just said, you know what? I don't know how to do this. I don't know how to price products for wholesale. Can you help me? She was more than happy to.
What products would you like to see? I'm expanding my line. What do you think I should get into? Just asking those questions. Once I was on Instagram, there are other artists That I started following and just reaching out and then people would reach out to [00:44:00] me too. And just ask Hey, I see you've been to New York now.
Somebody asked me that, like, how did you build your booth? Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know we figured it out and we did it. We built it too heavy. And when it came back, it was. It was saran wrapped together because we built it too heavy and they had dropped it off the forklift. Learned the hard way. Okay, we can't build the booth like that.
Can't build the crate that heavy, just, so she asked him like I would much rather not have you go through the same issues that I did. And I was thrilled that she asked, if someone might not be, and they'll tell you. Like they don't have time to deal with you. But I reached out to another artist that lives in another town.
Both of our products had been in a ton of the same stores. So we knew each other from social media, but never had met. And I was having a lot of breakage with my mugs. And she also had mugs and she [00:45:00] had a different way of packaging them. And so I just reached out to her and I said, I'm having trouble with breakage.
Our art styles are totally different. Yes, we technically were competing with each other for shelf space, but it's not like we were in a, had similar designs or anything. And I just said, if you're willing to share your source for your packing materials, I would love that. And she and I actually ended up going in on an order and buying them together and working it out.
And we finally met and it just, I'm all about community over competition. And I think a lot of artists are, and so Yeah, even though there are a ton of resources out on the internet now if you don't have time to dig, or if you just aren't finding the answers that you need, but that somebody else is successful at something, just don't be afraid to ask, the worst they'll say is no, or they won't say anything.
And it's the same way with. Selling wholesale and licensing. You'll just have to find the right audience, the [00:46:00] right person to ask, but to not be afraid to try. Yes. If you have a community and someone that's already kicking, whatever it is you want to do ask that person, that is really helpful.
Jennifer, we could talk for days about art biz.
Jennifer is one of the speakers that comes in and talks to my visionary students about how to wholesale, how to retail, how to develop things for their creative business.
And she's a wealth of knowledge. So Jennifer, can you tell us? what are you doing and how can we find you and how can we contact with you? Sure. I am still selling retail and wholesale on my website, tandem for two. com. And I'm working on some licensing collections. I'm actually up to my eyeballs right now in drawing for art directors that I met back in January.
And so we're going through that process of [00:47:00] developing products and collections. Which I love. That's just been really fun. And I actually put together a book pitch. I'm going to write a book. Over the past several months, I've put that together. And Designed a cover and example chapters. And I have been pitching that and it's all about gathering together and cultivating connections. And I have products that coordinate with the book that I'm pitching alongside the book. So that's been exciting.
I haven't had a yes yet, but I'm still looking for that right audience. So those are the main things that I'm in the middle of. That is amazing. And I'm going to make sure that you can find her website, to find all of her social media connections.
So she'll be easy to find. All you need to do is go to the show notes. So Jennifer, thank you. Thank you so much for coming today to talk to us about how you can become very creative and how you [00:48:00] can let yourself say, I am an artist. Even when you feel like you're really an engineer that has a very engineering brain that doesn't feel creative.
Now we all know we're creative in so many different ways. Here's just another example of that in real life. So everyone get out your creative passion, see what you can do with it. And then don't be surprised if it takes you some places that you weren't expecting, just like what happened with Jennifer and tandem for two.
Thank you so much for your time today, Jennifer, we appreciate you. And remember everyone, I want to see that you stay creative until next time. Thanks so much for having me. You're welcome.
